Looking for the perfect mechanical SLR

Crantz · Jul 12, 2021

Hi,

A year and a half ago I asked for advice on which camera to use for my collection of M42 lenses. Some time has passed, I found the then perfect camera for me in the Revue 5005 (a rebadged Chinon CE II). After countless rolls over the summer and winter and really getting into film it's now time for change.

The major problem I have with my 5005 is its weight and bulk. It's too heavy for me to use as an everyday camera and it doesn't fit into my little camera bag. I always have to use my big one which I don't want when I'm just walking around taking photos.

So I thought I could combine the need for a more compact camera with the desire for a 100% mechanical one. Not that I really need a mechanical one, I'm perfectly fine with my 5005's electronic shutter, I just want to have one, you probably know that feeling.

I did some research and came up with two models, the Yashica FX-3 and the Nikon FM/FM2. I have only M42 lenses so the Yashica would have the advantage of being able to use my existing lenses with a simple adapter. The Nikons however are arguably the nicer to use cameras and I really only use 28 and 50mm when walking around so I don't need the whole range of focal lenghts. I could just get two Nikkor lenses and be fine.

But those two models can't be everything so my question is what other cameras should I look at? Another requirement is a metal shutter. I had my problems with cloth, I don't want it. So I am explicitly looking for cameras with a mechanical metal shutter. They have to have a meter and use modern batteries, I can't guess exposure well. They must be light and compact. At best they have a mount I could adapt M42 to (Pentax, C/Y, Minolta) or M42 itself but that's not a dealbraker if not. And last but not least it shouldn't be a Praktica, I don't like them.

Thanks in advance.

Don_ih · Jul 12, 2021

What about a Spotmatic?

hashtagquack · Jul 12, 2021

Had this exact same question in the past. The answer is the Fujica ST801
Although maybe the size isnt too dissimilar to the Chinon. I never found it to be heavy. Maybe you would like the bessaflex in that case. Or a Pentax MX with an M42 adaptor... So many choices

gone · Jul 12, 2021

I'd recommend a Leicaflex, preferably the first model. I prefer Leica lenses for 35mm, the cameras are ultra reliable, and probably the best made SLR's around. But, they're a little heavy. Cloth shutter too, but capable of 1/2000, and again, the shutters are very reliable on these cameras.

beemermark · Jul 12, 2021

momus said:
I'd recommend a Leicaflex, preferably the first model. I prefer Leica lenses for 35mm, the cameras are ultra reliable, and probably the best made SLR's around. But, they're a little heavy. Cloth shutter too, but capable of 1/2000, and again, the shutters are very reliable on these cameras.

I immediately thought of the Leica SL2 But if the OP thinks a Chinon is heavy then the Leicaflex/Sl/SL2 is a ton of bricks -

film_man · Jul 12, 2021

Never tried it but if I was after M42 I'd really like to try a Bessaflex TM. That Voigtlander 40/2 if you can get it in M42 lens is great too (I had the Nikon F and Canon EF versions)

DF · Jul 12, 2021

Minolta SRT

Crantz · Jul 12, 2021

Thanks so far but as I said, I don't want a cloth shutter. In fact I already have a Fujica ST 801 on my shelf - with a faulty shutter. Getting the Fujica repaired is something I thought about, because apart from the shutter it's in perfect condition. But I definitely prefer looking explicitly for a metal shutter at this point.

Unfortunatly the Bessaflex is horribly expensive in Germany and I don't want to fiddle around with importing one from Japan. Otherwise it would be a no-brainer in my situation.

faberryman · Jul 12, 2021

beemermark said:
I immediately thought of the Leica SL2 But if the OP thinks a Chinon is heavy then the Leicaflex/Sl/SL2 is a ton of bricks -

Because the flange distance is greater on the Leicaflex than an M42 body, there are no M42 to Leicaflex lens adapters available. One exception may be for third party T-mount or Adaptall lenses if you have some of those in your M42 collection.

wiltw · Jul 12, 2021

Crantz said:
But those two models can't be everything so my question is what other cameras should I look at? Another requirement is a metal shutter. I had my problems with cloth, I don't want it. So I am explicitly looking for cameras with a mechanical metal shutter. They have to have a meter and use modern batteries, I can't guess exposure well. They must be light and compact. At best they have a mount I could adapt M42 to (Pentax, C/Y, Minolta) or M42 itself but that's not a dealbraker if not. And last but not least it shouldn't be a Praktica, I don't like them.

Thanks in advance.

Look for a body with a Copal shutter or Seiko Metal Focal-Plane Compact... these use metal vertical travel focal plane curtains.

From Widipedia

"Square-type metal-bladed focal-plane shutter[edit]
In 1960, the Konica F (Japan) 35 mm SLR began a long term incremental increase in maximum shutter speeds with its "High Synchro" FP shutter.[52] This shutter greatly improved efficiency over the typical Leica shutter by using stronger metal blade sheaves that were "fanned" much faster, vertically along the minor axis of the 24×36 mm frame. As perfected in 1965 by Copal, the Copal Square's slit traversed the 24 mm high film gate in 7 ms[53] (3.4 m/s). This doubled flash X-sync speed to 1/125 s. In addition, a minimum 1.7 mm wide slit would double top shutter speed to a maximum 1/2000 s. Note, most Squares were derated to 1/1000 s in the interest of reliability.[54]

The Square's metal blades were also immune to the drying out, rotting and pinholing that cloth curtained shutters could suffer from as they aged.[55][56] In addition, Squares came from the supplier as complete drop-in modules, so camera designers could concentrate on camera design and leave shutter design to specialist subcontractors. This had previously been an advantage of leaf shutters.[57]

Square-type FP shutters were originally bulky in size and noisy in operation, limiting their popularity in the 1960s among camera designers and photographers.[22] Although Konica and Nikkormat (edit: and Topcon D-1) were major users of the Copal Square, many other brands including Asahi Pentax, Canon, Leica and Minolta continued to refine the Leica-type shutter for reliability, if not speed; moving from three axis to four axis designs (one control axis for each curtain drum axis, instead of one control for both drums).[58]

New compact and quieter Square designs, with simpler construction and greater reliability, were introduced in the 1970s.[59] The most notable were the Copal Compact Shutter (CCS), introduced by the Konica Autoreflex TC (1976),[60] and the Seiko Metal Focal-Plane Compact (MFC), first used in the Pentax ME (1977; all from Japan).[61] The vertical blade type supplanted the horizontal cloth type as the dominant FP shutter type in the 1980s. Even Leica Camera (originally E. Leitz), long a champion of the horizontal cloth FP shutter for its quietness, switched to a vertical metal FP shutter in 2006 for its first digital rangefinder (RF) camera, the Leica M8 (Germany).[62]

Note that the Contax (Germany) 35 mm RF camera of 1932 had a vertical travel FP shutter with dual brass-slatted roller blinds with adjustable spring tension and slit width, and a top speed of 1/1000 s (the Contax II of 1936 had a claimed 1/1250 s top speed), but it was woefully unreliable and not an antecedent of the modern Square shutter.[63][64]

Quest for higher speed[edit]
Although the Square shutter improved the FP shutter in most ways, it still limited maximum flash X-sync speed to 1/125 s (unless using special long-burn FP flash bulbs that burn throughout the slit wipe, making slit width irrelevant.[65][66]). Any quality leaf shutter of the 1960s could achieve at least 1/500 s flash sync. Greater FP shutter X-sync speed would require further strengthening the curtains, by using exotic materials, allowing them to move even faster and widen the slits.

Copal collaborated with Nippon Kogaku to improve the Compact Square shutter for the Nikon FM2 (Japan) of 1982 by using honeycomb pattern etched titanium foil, stronger and lighter than plain stainless steel, for its blade sheaves. This permitted cutting shutter-curtain travel time by nearly half to 3.6 ms (at 6.7 m/s) and allowed 1/200 s flash X-sync speed. A bonus was a distortionless top speed of 1/4000 s (with 1.7 mm slit).[67] The Nikon FE2 (Japan), with an improved version of this shutter, had a 3.3 ms (at 7.3 m/s) curtain travel time and boosted X-sync speed to 1/250 s in 1983. The top speed remained 1/4000 s (with 1.8 mm slit).[68]

The fastest focal-plane shutter ever used in a film camera was the 1.8 ms curtain travel time (at 13.3 m/s) duralumin and carbon fiber bladed one introduced by the Minolta Maxxum 9xi (named Dynax 9xi in Europe, α-9xi in Japan) in 1992. It provided a maximum 1/12,000 s (with 1.1 mm slit) and 1/300 s X-sync.[69] A further improved version of this shutter, spec'ed for 100.000 actuations, was used in the Minolta Maxxum 9 [de] (named Dynax 9 in Europe, α-9 in Japan) in 1998 and Minolta Maxxum 9Ti (named Dynax 9Ti in Europe, α-9Ti in Japan) in 1999.[70]"

IIRC, all of the above cameras -- except for the Nikon FE2 and the Minoltas mentioned in the last paragraph -- were mechanical cameras and not electronically controlled

RLangham · Jul 12, 2021

The Chinon CS is pretty good. It has a quiet mechanical metal shutter and overall smooth operation. In most regards aside from the shutter it's similar to Spotmatic SP II, and like the SP, it has an excellent viewfinder. In black they look sharp, especially the GAF-branded model, L-CS.

I do worry that if you think the 5005 is too heavy you may find the CS too heavy as well. Same for the Nikkormat and many Yashica SLR's.

Really, I think you should get a Spotmatic or maybe a OM-1. Those are two of the best-regarded mechanical SLR's of all time and while neither has the metal shutter they're both very compact and ergonomic.

Marcelo Paniagua · Jul 12, 2021

Whenever I use M42 lens, I use a Canon F1 new with a M42 adapter. Really like its ergonomics and it is buld like a tank. Pretty reliable.

Chan Tran · Jul 12, 2021

How about the Pentax MX for mechanical and small. It has the K mount which is a bit easier to adapt the M42 screw mount if you want. It's a bout the smallest 35mm SLR.

film_man · Jul 12, 2021

By the way...I bought a M42 to F adapter. This one has a bit of glass in it so I can focus to infinity. I must say I haven't noticed any reduction in image quality with my 55/2 SCM but in high contrast situations I think there is a bit more flare than normal (though I can't tell for sure). It was great using the 55/2 on the FM2n and F5...though that novelty has worn off quickly.

grain elevator · Jul 12, 2021

I, too, am about fed up with cloth shutters. But the choice in native M42 (and I'd want a native body, auto stop-down was a great invention) is limited. I don't think there is more than the Chinons, Fujicas, Prakticas, the Voigtländer and maybe a Ricoh or two, that fullfill the conditions other than being small. I don't think there is one that fulfills all the conditions - small, native m42, metal shutter, mechanical.

benjiboy · Jul 12, 2021

It would seem to me a Pentax K 1000 or a Pentax Spotmatic would be ideal for your problem, and would go with all your lenses.

Paul Howell · Jul 12, 2021

M42 to Nikon F requires an adaptor with a glass element for focus to infinity, sort of like a teleconverter, I had one for a while, but wide angels do no work well and and there was some of image quality. I think a Vivitar XC , 2, 3, were all mechanical while the 4 had an electronic shutter. All were based on the very similar Cosina CSR who made the XC bodies for Vivitar. It is lighter, a bit smaller than the Chinon. There is an optional gadget that fitted the hot shoe and the shutter speed dial turning it into an autoexpoure body. Most of the small and lighter bodies are in K mount, with an adaptor M42 lens work quite well in stop down metering mode, but for most part had electronic shutters.

For light weight Nikon, FG, will need to use Nikon mount lens.

Crantz · Jul 12, 2021

grain elevator said:
I, too, am about fed up with cloth shutters. But the choice in native M42 (and I'd want a native body, auto stop-down was a great invention) is limited. I don't think there is more than the Chinons, Fujicas, Prakticas, the Voigtländer and maybe a Ricoh or two, that fullfill the conditions other than being small. I don't think there is one that fulfills all the conditions - small, native m42, metal shutter, mechanical.

You may be right when talking about native M42. But as I said I would be perfectly fine using something else. I want a camera to carry around with mostly just a 50mm. When I need a 135 or 200 I could just grab my 5005. M42 compatibility, native or by adapter, would be a nice bonus but isn't necessary.

As stated in the opening post, I have the Yashica FX-3 and Nikon FM on my list. The former being M42 compatible the latter being the better (or nicer) camera. I just want to know if there is anything else I should look at (fully mechanical, metal shutter, light and compact). I don't want to get persuaded to cloth, I've already made my mind up on this.

Paul Howell said:
I think a Vivitar XC , 2, 3, were all mechanical while the 4 had an electronic shutter. All were based on the very similar Cosina CSR who made the XC bodies for Vivitar.

camera-wiki says both the Vivitars and the CSR are electronic shutter.

reddesert · Jul 12, 2021

Yashica TL Electro X (not the regular TL Electro) and Vivitar 220/SL both have an M42 mount and a vertical travel metal shutter, mechanical.

Pentax K mount and Yashica/Contax bayonet mount SLRs can take M42 lenses with a inexpensive, purely mechanical adapter ring that allows infinity focus, and you have a choice of various modern (1980-ish) cameras, some of which are mechanical, but you should confirm that the camera does stop down metering correctly.

If you're willing to change lens mounts then Pentax K, Nikon and Nikkormat, etc.

Horatio · Jul 12, 2021

Nikon F2 is only slightly larger than the FM/FM2x series. F2s are selling for less than FM2n models.

Chan Tran · Jul 12, 2021

If you insist on using M42 lenses then don't get anything with a different mount. The Nikon FM is OK as it's relatively small, metal shutter and mechanical but I wouldn't use it with M42 lenses.

Chan Tran · Jul 12, 2021

Horatio said:
Nikon F2 is only slightly larger than the FM/FM2x series. F2s are selling for less than FM2n models.

F2 Photomic and F2A are inexpensive. Other models like F2 with DE-1 plain prism, F2S, F2SB and F2AS are not inexpensive. The finder for the SB or AS alone would be more than an FM2n.

Wallendo · Jul 12, 2021

I would go with the Nikon. Pick up a 50mm Nikkor and another lens and you are ready to.
You would still have your original camera for your m42 lens.
Since most m42 adapters only mount the lens to the camera by do not communicate with the camera, you would end up shooting in all manual mode or using step-down metering, although I have had success shooting on Minolta alpha-mount cameras using aperture priority. If you are getting a camera with a meter, it is much easier to use a lens that passes information to the camera.

Bazza D · Jul 12, 2021

I have a Cosina C1. It is as modern and as you can get and simple. It is one of the evolutions of Cosina camera that was used as the basis for the Nikon FM10. It has many names. Promaster 2000pk, Vivitar 2000 and 4000. All versions except the FM10 are K-mount and easily adapted to M42. The Cosina made cameras are also some of the last film cameras made. They were marketed as student/beginner cameras and often have seen little use. The Nikon FM or even the FM10 wouldn't be a bad choice but then you have to invest in lenses. The FM is good because it can take non AI lenses and you can save a little that way. I have a Nikon FM and really like it. However, it is kind of heavier than it looks. It is considered a more compact SLR, but I wouldn't call it light. The FM is a nice camera but good examples are hard to find. Most FMs are well used. Also, the prices are going up. You can find one of the various Cosina made SLRs for under $50 and just get an adapter for M42 to K-mount. K-mount lenses are plentiful and inexpensive as well.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jul 12, 2021

A Pen FT w/ m42 adapter would fit the bill, particularly if you have access to glass 35mm or wider, are willing to stop-down focus/meter, and don't mind shooting diptychs.

Looking for the perfect mechanical SLR

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