Looking for the Kodak Selenium toner formula

Jim Noel · Dec 3, 2015

Several years ago I made seleniumn toner using Kodak's formula. I rigged up a hot plate 40-5- feet from the house and simmered it for a little over 4 hours before it was dissolved. I decided than that it was not worth the effort. I bought 2 gallons and still have one unopened. I never throw it away, only filter and replenish.

Patrick Robert James · Dec 3, 2015

Not something that I would try myself, but I did see a formula once for a two part Selenium toner. I only remember it because I thought it would be cool to tone the highlights with Selenium after a light bleach, then tone the shadows sepia. Basically the reverse of what most people do now. Might be a visually interesting method.

Kilgallb · Dec 3, 2015

How do you filter and replenish?

ColColt · Dec 3, 2015

Why not just buy the liquid version? That's what I've always used.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...kCFVCAaQodEBoDZQ&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&A=details&Q=

Gerald C Koch · Dec 4, 2015

A study made some years ago for the microfilm industry found use of selenium toner for archival stability was effective only if there was a profound change in image color of the silver. Most photographers would be unhappy with the necessary tonal shift. The study also found that toning with sulfur did improve stability but again the problem of color shift. Best to use a product like Agfa Sistan which causes no color shift.

I include a paper on the toxicity of sodium selenite, the principle ingredient of selenium toners.

Dead Link Removed

ColColt · Dec 4, 2015

I started using selenium back around 1980 as a measure for not only a slight tone change but also for the keeping properties I read of in several of Kodak's pamphlets and books. I later found further enhancement, as for archiving prints, could be achieved with their GP-1 Gold Toner and began using that in conjunction or in lieu of Selenium.

While those prints are not 100 years old the oldest are about 35 years old and still look the same as they were then. I would say they're good for at least another 20+ years and by then it won't matter to me or anyone else anyway.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 4, 2015

I have hundreds of prints that were never toned or toned for permanence. The vast majority of them are in excellent condition. Many are over 80 years old with one taken in 1886 of my great, great grandmother. Toning is not really a substitute for a properly processed and washed print.

ColColt · Dec 4, 2015

Very true but, if toned as well...

Gerald C Koch · Dec 4, 2015

ColColt said:
Very true but, if toned as well...

As I mentioned in a previous post, mild to moderate toning will not increase the permanence of a print. So tone if you like the effect but for no other reason.

"The Image Permanence Institute (IPI) at the Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT) in Rochester, New York extensively researched redox blemishes in microfilms5. IPI’s research showed that selenium toning did not effectively stop the spread of redox [blemishes] IPI then looked at a polysulfide solution and IMAGELINK Brown Toner solution in place of selenium. IPI’s testing showed both solutions stopped the migration of redox blemishes into the roll of microfilm. As a result of brown toning, toned microfilm has a higher resistance to the formation of redox blemishes."

MattKing · Dec 4, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
As I mentioned in a previous post, mild to moderate toning will not increase the permanence of a print. So tone if you like the effect but for no other reason.

There is one additional advantage of mild to moderate toning. Some toners do an excellent job of revealing problems with fixing and washing - an early stain at the time of toning is IMHO, preferable to a stain or other deterioration that slowly appears over time.

ColColt · Dec 5, 2015

Anytime you change the silver in a given paper you change it's stability for the better if proper toners are used. Kodak and Ansel Adams recommended selenium as well as the GP-1 (gold chloride) solution for more permanence.

"The final processing sequence involves selenium toning; a procedure, which intensifies the blacks of the print and which also, makes the image more permanent. Adams also felt this process gave the print a more appealing image color, neutralizing the usually greenish-black tones of an untoned print to a sometimes very slight cool-purple black."

http://www.anseladams.com/authorized-and-exclusive/

This also recommends the selenium toner for archival purposes as well as a slight color change.

http://www.blackandwhitefineart.net/2011/05/how-to-make-a-fine-art-black-and-white-archival-print/

"In addition to producing a mild deepening of shadows and a more pleasant tone (usually), selenium provides protection by coating the silver in the image with a more stable metal, rendering it more archival."

http://www.albany.edu/faculty/dgoodwin/aart344/Archival_Processing.htm

Gerald C Koch · Dec 5, 2015

ColColt said:
"In addition to producing a mild deepening of shadows and a more pleasant tone (usually), selenium provides protection by coating the silver in the image with a more stable metal, rendering it more archival."

Archival permanence is not achieved unless the entire surface of the silver grains are covered by the toning element be it gold, selenium or sulfur. This would result in a profound change in image color with most papers. In addition it was found that sulfur toning was the most effective of the three mentioned methods.

While Adams was an accomplished darkroom technician he was not a scientist. The work at IPI is far more creditable in that they support the microfilm industry whose existence depends on the guarantee of archival stability.

While toning can be esthetically pleasing it should not be done purely for the desire for permanence. As it is usually practiced it just does not work. For example the once popular addition of small amounts of selenium toner to HCA baths.

ColColt · Dec 5, 2015

For prints that I wanted to outlast me I most always used selenium and the gold toning solution. Of course, neither would have done any good unless the prints were properly fixed with a two bath fixer and washed properly, if not it was all for naught. Best I recall I washed those prints for about an hour and tested a second print for any residual fixer present. If it was in that print it was in the one I wanted to keep.

Further increasing the probability of long term keeping was using museum quality(100% rag) 4-ply matte boards and stored, if not displayed, in archival boxes. When we were in Rochester back in 1983 and finished our tour of Kodak Park, just down the road a short distance was Light Impressions who, as most know, specialized in everything you could imagine for archival purposes. I bought quite a bit of white 4-ply 100% rag board and negative sleeves and several sizes of boxes. Too bad they're no longer in business.

Bob Carnie · Dec 5, 2015

When we were in Rochester back in 1983 and finished our tour of Kodak Park, just down the road a short distance was Light Impressions who, as most know, specialized in everything you could imagine for archival purposes. I bought quite a bit of white 4-ply 100% rag board and negative sleeves and several sizes of boxes. Too bad they're no longer in business.

I made that pilgrimage many times. Saw a huge exhibit of Ansel Adams prints at Light Impressions.. the edges of the prints were cracking and chipped, I no longer used
that method of mounting silver prints due to that exhibit.

I cannot think of a single facility operating today as cool as the Rochester, Light Impressions store of the late 70's and 80's.

ColColt · Dec 5, 2015

I cannot think of a single facility operating today as cool as the Rochester, Light Impressions store of the late 70's and 80's.

I agree and my only regrets is that I didn't buy more while there. You can't have a crystal ball and be able to see years down the road but had that been possible I would have bought ten times more than I did. I think I have some pictures of the outside of that store in my archives.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 5, 2015

Sadly archival preservation is not easy to obtain. Many of the couples that had their weddings put on VHS tape are finding that the magnetic coating is coming off the base. Digital storage is only good for the life of the media. IBM 8 inch disks went to 5-1/4 disks to 3.5 inch discs. Has anyone seen an 8 inch drive lately or even a 5-1/4 one. I have had a dozen or so music CD's go bad where the coating has flaked of the disk. Even solid-state memory is perishable being effected by radiation and cosmic rays. The US Library of Congress still sticks with phonograph disks and microfilm. Why, because the technology is proven, simple and easily reproduced.

megzdad81 · Dec 5, 2015

I was just looking at the Light Impressions website yesterday--damn tricky internet search engines ...

Patrick Robert James · Dec 5, 2015

Bob Carnie said:
I made that pilgrimage many times. Saw a huge exhibit of Ansel Adams prints at Light Impressions.. the edges of the prints were cracking and chipped, I no longer used
that method of mounting silver prints due to that exhibit.

What method are you talking about Bob? Were they trimmed to the edge of the image before mounting? Just curious.

nworth · Dec 5, 2015

There are lots of other selenium toners that are not quite like KRST. Some are direct, and others are bleach-redevlop types. One of the most famous is Flemish toner, marketed at one time by both Agfa and Dassonville. It is a bleach-redevelop type:

Dassonville T-7 selenium toner
Solution A - Bleach
Potassium ferricyanide 30 g
Potassium bromide 30 g
WTM 1 l

Solution B - Redeveloper
Sodium sulfide 40 g
Selenium (powder) 1 g
WTM 1 l

Dissolve the sodium sulfide completely, then add the selenium and heat until dissolved.
Use the bleach full strength. Bleach the print completely.
Dilute the redeveloper 1:10 for use. Redevelop until the desired tone is reached. Wash for one hour after toning.

A similar toner was marketed by bothe Kodak and Dassonville as T-56:

Kodak T-56 Sulfide-Selenium Toner
Solution A
Potassium ferricyanide 50 g
Potassium bromide 50 g
WTM 1 l

Solution B
Water (52C) 750 ml
Sodium sulfide 250 g
Selenium powder 5.7 g
WTM 1 l

Bleach print in solution A, then wash until yellow stain is removed.
For use, dilute solution B 1:20. Redevelop bleached print in this solution, wash again, and dry as usual without heat.

Among the direct toners is this:

Direct selenium toner
Selenium powder 1 - 4.6 g
Sodium sulfide 50 g
Water 480 ml

Heat water to dissolve selenium. Filter resulting solution. After toning, treat prints with 2 or 3 baths of a one percent sodium sulfite solution.
The tone is a purplish brown. Less selenium in the mixture produces browner tones.

Powdered selenium is available from chemical suppliers, but it is not always easy to get in small quantities. It is quite toxic and is an inhalation hazard. Be careful.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 5, 2015

When you add sulfur to a solution of sodium sulfide it dissolves to form a mixture of polysulfides sometimes represented as Na2S5. A similar reaction occurs when you replace the sulfur with selenium. The ratio of selenium to sulfur in the final product determines the color produced by the toner. More selenium produces colder tones.

Photo Engineer · Dec 5, 2015

More Selenium is also more toxic!

Anon Ymous · Dec 31, 2016

Ok, I'm not interested in making any Selenium toner, but I'm curious about the toxic fumes when boiling the sodium sulfite - selenium powder solution. What are they, sulfur dioxide?

Gerald C Koch · Dec 31, 2016

Anon Ymous said:
Ok, I'm not interested in making any Selenium toner, but I'm curious about the toxic fumes when boiling the sodium sulfite - selenium powder solution. What are they, sulfur dioxide?

It would depend a bit on the composition of the solution. My guess would be that hydrogen selenide gas is released. It smells a bit like rotten horseradish. Years ago when selenium rectifiers were used in electronic equipment when one shorted out and caught fire this is what you smelled.

Anon Ymous · Dec 31, 2016

Oh, that would certainly be nasty. Thanks for the info and happy new year.

MattKing · Dec 31, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
It smells a bit like rotten horseradish.

Gerald:
How do you know what rotten horseradish smells like?

Looking for the Kodak Selenium toner formula

Jim Noel

Patrick Robert James

Kilgallb

ColColt

Gerald C Koch

ColColt

Gerald C Koch

ColColt

Gerald C Koch

MattKing

Moderator

ColColt

Gerald C Koch

ColColt

Bob Carnie

ColColt

Gerald C Koch

megzdad81

Patrick Robert James

nworth

Gerald C Koch

Photo Engineer

Anon Ymous

Gerald C Koch

Anon Ymous

MattKing

Moderator

Looking for the Kodak Selenium toner formula

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency