Looking for some info on old German camera (around 1920’s) Wieynk Elberfeld

[Dobrina]

Hi,
I’ve recently acquired an old camera origin Germany with a label saying Photohaus Wieynk Elberfeld.The camera comes with original case,a bronze tripod and plates and its in generally great condition.
I’ve been on internet researching for 3 days now and it’s driving me insane as I can’t find a thing about the camera or it’s maker. I stumbled on a similar post on here so I decided to ask if you kind people can help me.
Thanks a lot.

Here are the pics

 

[Ian Grant]

That's probably the retailers name, it looks to be a fairly generic budget 9x12 camera, I can't read what make the lens is but the Vario shutter indicates it's an inexpensive model, it's likely the lens is a Dialyte many 135mm f6.8 budget lenses are.

I could help more if you can post what the lens says before Anastigmat, I've a long list of 9x12 cameras and their lenses and shutters back in the UK.

Ian

 

[Dobrina]

That's probably the retailers name, it looks to be a fairly generic budget 9x12 camera, I can't read what make the lens is but the Vario shutter indicates it's an inexpensive model, it's likely the lens is a Dialyte many 135mm f6.8 budget lenses are.

I could help more if you can post what the lens says before Anastigmat, I've a long list of 9x12 cameras and their lenses and shutters back in the UK.

Ian

Hi Ian,
Thanks for your help.
The lens says Wieynk Elberfeld Anastigmat.
So according to you the camera is of no great value?

Thanks again for your time.

Dob

 

[Ian Grant]

Hi Dob

In the UK Wallace and Heaton (and plenty of ohers) sold re-branded German cameras, these would often carry the stores own brand Zodel was W&H's, the lenses marked that way for them as well. This was still going on in the 70's and into the 80's Derek Gardener a small London based chain had their own lens range, it's just a different ring in the filter thread. So I think that's the store name.

The camera's not valuable but they often sell for more than they are really worth. I think I paid £60 for a nice Rodenstock 9x12 camera with a 135mm f4.5 Eurynar in an Ibsor shutter, it's a re-badged Welta. Film is available you need inserts for the plate holders.

Ian

 

[AgX]

Back then manufacturers often customized a camera for a retailer and branded it so to say also on that retailer. With earlier cameras even more.
Maybe such a branded version is extra attractive for a collector, especially if it differed from the original model.
But Ian is the expert on such.

 

[Ian Grant]

I think a re-branded camera would only be valuable if it came with the original box etc, and they do but very rarely

This does remind me of a photo store I used as a student, Camera House in Birmingham, and surely Photohaus is similar as it's Photo House in English. So maybe Herr Wieynke had photo stores in the Elbe valley in Germany before WWII

Ian

 

[macfred]

[QUOTE="Ian Grant, post: 2089384, member: 2310"
... Photohaus is similar as it's Photo House in English. So maybe Herr Wieynke had photo stores in the Elbe valley in Germany before WWII ... Ian[/QUOTE]

Ian, I guess you're right - for the sake of completeness: Elberfeld is a municipal subdivision of the German city of Wuppertal / North Rhine Westphalia; it was an independent town until 1929.

 

[Ian Grant]

Thanks, seems to make sense.

I have quite a collection of British Journal Photographic Almanacs, 1921-63 (some earlier and 2 or 3 gaps in the 20') then it became the British Journal of Photography Annual. If I look in an early 1930's copy I can see quite a number of British camera stores selling re-badged German cameras, I know the same was happening in the US and France so obviously it would be similar in the home market.

Even quite large camera manufacturers bought in some models often customised for them, I'm thinking of Houghton in the UK, also Butcher, some Ensign branded cameras were in fact made in Germany, and Butcher were an importer. The two companies had common ownership and inter-traded before finally merging in the 1920s.

Ian

 

[Ian Grant]

It will be possible to work out who made the camera but it'll take time and patience. I only realised my Rodenstock 9x12 was made by Welta after a member here with a Welta came to visit to see if I had any plate holders that would fit his camera, I spotted his Weta was almost identical but clearly the same manufacturer.

With some cameras it's more difficult it took a couple of years before discovered a quarter plate field camera was actually a Houghton Victo. You need to look at the following with 9x12 cameras like this one, the side struts that brace the focus bed, the focus mechanism, the front standard and how it locks, the edge fit of the plate holders etc. The latter can rule out a lot of manufacturers as they can differ quite markedly, but what doesn't help is there were a lot of short lived manufacturers, companies closing, new ones taking their place in the recession of the 20's and early 30's,

It has a sort of Ernemann look I'm not sure they re-badged though.

Ian

 

[Dobrina]

Hi Guys,
Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond to my enquiry.
I have got to be honest I know absolutely nothing about cameras as I am an antiques dealer not a camera enthusiast however this is the first time I couldn’t find any info on the net on an object i’ve bought.
This camera comes from an attic in an abandoned mansion somewhere in Germany.It comes complete with a bronze tripod in a case,original leather case and plates.It was sealed in a box with some photographs dated 1925-1927 with a stamp on their backs stating pictures were done in Photohaus Wieynk Eldeberg so that makes me think it was a professionally used camera.(possibly)
Thanks again for all the info!!

Dob

 

[AgX]

Photohaus means photo shop. A camera store, maybe plus lab, maybe plus studio.

 

[Puggsy]

From my McKeons Price Guide to Antique & Classic Cameras-

 

[Dobrina]

From my McKeons Price Guide to Antique & Classic Cameras-
View attachment 202962

Thank you Puggsy

 

[AgX]

The latest McKeowns listing is from 2004. It was aimed at collectors at camera fairs. A common antiques dealer at best could conclude if he got something super rare in house or not.

 

[Ian Grant]

Hi Guys,
Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond to my enquiry.
I have got to be honest I know absolutely nothing about cameras as I am an antiques dealer not a camera enthusiast however this is the first time I couldn’t find any info on the net on an object i’ve bought.
This camera comes from an attic in an abandoned mansion somewhere in Germany.It comes complete with a bronze tripod in a case,original leather case and plates.It was sealed in a box with some photographs dated 1925-1927 with a stamp on their backs stating pictures were done in Photohaus Wieynk Eldeberg so that makes me think it was a professionally used camera.(possibly)
Thanks again for all the info!!

Dob

The stamp probably indicated where the images were printed, many of my fathers pre-WWII prints are stamped on teh back by the lab

It's very definitely not a "Professional " 9x12 camera, that's obvious from the lens, shutter, front standard etc. Top of the range 9x12 cameras had Tessar, Dagor, or equivalent lenses in Ibsor or Compur shutters with a full range of shutter speeds, the Vario shutter is rather limiting in that respect. Also the front standard appears to have no rise and that f6.8 lens indicates a cheap Dialtyte, a good one would carry the lens manufacturers own name, so a bottom of a range model. That said it just means it wouldn't fetch the higher end prices for similar 9x12 cameras with a better spec.

What it does have going for it is it's case and tripod so it's an outfit not just a camera You'd need to check Completed Sales on Ebay, I know what I can pick up camera like this for and it's not much at all unless a desirable camera with a good lens/shutter. A good example of a premium 9x12 camera is a KW Patent Etui with a 135mm f4.5 Tessar in a Compur, or the Voigtlander Avus with a Heliar, and some of the better Zeiss 9x12s, there's a few.

Cameras aren't far off the same value today compared to the last McKeowans listing 2004 or earlier, they dipped then picked back up more recently/ That 9x12 camera in the link is incorrect as no 9x12 camera came with a 105mm lens but if you substitute £ for $ that's a fair price range for just the camera, a touch more as an outfit. Matches the £60 I paid for my Rodenstock with a tripod, developing dish and 9x12 contact frame. The market's fickle, I'm a canny buyer - that's my Scottish blood, so it could of course sell for more, especially in London

Ian

 

[AgX]

Ian, where I live there are only a handful of camera nerds, and none would buy it. I see it as decorative item that fits well an antique shop and likely will be sold there as such.
My hint at the price register being old was caused be the idea that many of those collectors have gone. That the registers new editions were cancelled I see as a confirmation of that. (Of course one could argue that prices kept steady, or that the internet made such listings obsolete...)