Looking For Some Advice

Deke4774 · Apr 15, 2021

Hi all,
I am new to Photrio although a long time member on other photography sites like Fred Miranda.
This site seems to have some pretty comprehensive information regarding large format photography, which is what I need.
I have been using 35mm, and medium format for about 35 years.
I would like to use large format equipment for landscape work (i.e. a field camera).
For years I really liked the look of the Sinar Norma; however, I decided it would be to difficult to use in the field.
I love the look of the wooden field cameras but I do have concerns as they are made of wood.
Are my concerns unfounded and do any of you have any recommendations for a make and model of a field camera to purchase?
It doesn't have to be a new camera, but do you have any tips/things to watch for if buying a used one?
Thanks for your time and help,
Derek

BrianShaw · Apr 15, 2021

Wood has been used for field cameras for generations. If there was a problem, there wouldn't be so many of them. In bad weather conditions, it is just as worrisome to have a metal camera.

In the field I use both monorail and press camera. Monorail is big and heavy. Press camera has virtually no movements. A field camera would be infinitely more flexible than either.

Welcome to the forum; enjoy!

Paul Howell · Apr 15, 2021

My Crown and Speed Graphic are wood, have held up for going on 60 or so years. As I don't use a lot of movement my Crown Graphic work well for me, with rangefinder and fast film I can use it on a monopod when setting up a tripod is difficult. If I think I will need more movement I use a early 50s vintage New View, a hyrid view and press camera, has good movements, rotating back but not a easy to carry around as field camera.. If you want o shoot in the field then I recommend a field camera. Or a 4X5 Linhof technical 4X5 camera, more movement than a typical press camera, all metal body, rangefinder, but be prepared to pay.

Kodachromeguy · Apr 15, 2021

You will soon see a ton of answers and "I use XYZ" camera. There are 3 broad classes of 4×5 cameras.

1. Monorail cameras.
2. Folding bed (standards attached to a rigid bed)
A. Wood
B. Aluminum/ magnesium
C. Modern composite
3. Rigid box body for wide angle lenses.

All have been used in the field. An inexpensive version of 2 above would be a great way to learn if large format suits you. On any used units, check for wobble, bellows condition, and knobs that tighten properly. Mr. Kumar often sells cameras here on Photrio; you can check if he has a unit for you.

Have fun!

voceumana · Apr 15, 2021

Wooden field cameras are fine; if you want a little more modern materials, there is the Toyo 45AR (which I have). Mono-rail cameras can be used in the field, but are not usually as compact for transportation; in use the size doesn't much matter.

My opinion: 4x5 is a good starting point, 8x10 is very large and heavy and I don't recommend starting there; 5x7 is a nice size, but not as many films are available in 5x7.

btaylor · Apr 15, 2021

There will be many answers to your question, and the actual use your new camera will get will weigh heavily on the choice you make.
Personally, I find monorails mostly take longer to set up and use outside the studio, but the movements are more flexible, and if you are doing architecture you probably won’t be far from the car and can use a cart. Out in nature if you are hiking for a significant distance a wood or carbon fiber field camera would help with the weight. OTOH, I really like my old Linhof Technika out in the field, it is heavy but sets up quickly and has all the movements I need for landscape. But I don’t hike a great distance from the car either. And as they say over at LFPF, your first large format camera won’t usually be your last, so you don’t need to get that committed on that first purchase. Have fun! And don’t overthink it.

removed account4 · Apr 15, 2021

Hi Derek
The only problem that some of the wooden field cameras have is extension. Some wood cameras do not have a long enough bellows or rail extension to use longer (non-telephoto) lenses
so be aware of that limitation, and some might not be able to accommodate short lenses ( shorter than 90mm ). Just make sure whichever one you get has lens boards that are either readily available or easy to make / have made and how squished they can compress the bellows and how far they can extend them. Nothing is ever perfect/without limitations.

Good luck!
John

BradS · Apr 15, 2021

Deke4774 said:
...
I love the look of the wooden field cameras but I do have concerns as they are made of wood.
Are my concerns unfounded and do any of you have any recommendations for a make and model of a field camera to purchase?

Hi and welcome!

and...yes, your concerns about wood field cameras are unfounded as you say.

As for a camera recommendation, it kinda depends upon what and how you want to photograph the landscape but when starting out, it is hard to go wrong with something simple and light weight (although not too pretty) like a Tachihara or pretty like a Wisner Traditional and its close relative the Zone VI. There are many similar cameras....lightweight and sturdy are usually the two primary concerns, oh, and having a standard (linhof tech style or sinar style) lens board is also important (at least to me)!

Tel · Apr 15, 2021

Avoid forest fires and termites and you'll be OK. I've got an assortment of old wooden field cameras in all sizes and I love shooting with them. I like the Gundlach cameras the best, I think. Nicely engineered and well finished (though I have to say I don't keep them for their decorative value). A nice thing about the older wooden cameras is that you can make your own lensboards with fairly basic woodworking skills. If you're careful to get one with a rear extension rail, you can extend into the next county. My Kodak View #2 will give me 28 inches of extension. The thing to beware of is old or damaged bellows; they are often afflicted with pinhole light leaks and may need repair or replacement. (Liquid electrical tape is sometimes good for small repairs, and it's fiddly but not impossible work to make a new set of bellows, especially if you have the old ones at hand for a pattern.) Of the three standard formats, my favorite for landscape is 5x7--it's a bit more cinemascope than the other two.

ventdesable · Apr 15, 2021

Deke4774 said:
For years I really liked the look of the Sinar Norma; however, I decided it would be to difficult to use in the field.
I love the look of the wooden field cameras but I do have concerns as they are made of wood.

Hello,

Here is my opinion :

I do own a couple Sinar (F1 & P). I do not own any wooden camera. But I might get one sometime. Not for weight consideration because when you add all the accessories, the camera itself isn't making a lot of difference. But for aesthetic reasons.
What is certain is when I started to play around with that kind of camera ; the fact that a monorail is symmetrical played a huge role in the learning curve. It's a lot easier to understand movements with that kind of camera. Especially with the Sinar F which has a "calculator" : you determine the tilt angle needed on your front (or back) board by setting the near and far point that you want to be in the plane of focus. It also gives you the optimal opening to get every thing sharp between those two points. And when you are a beginner as the one I was... It's a huge help !

Setting up a Norma isn't so long : you can have it on a short bank so that it goes directly in your bag. And just add a longer one to have all you need. A few seconds. And I bet that I can put my F in working order long before anyone finishes to "unfold" his wooden camera ;-)

Lastly, you can find that a Norma is expensive or cheap. That doesn't count. Because the day you decide to sell it you won't loose money.

Jérôme

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Wood has been used for field cameras for generations. If there was a problem, there wouldn't be so many of them. In bad weather conditions, it is just as worrisome to have a metal camera.

In the field I use both monorail and press camera. Monorail is big and heavy. Press camera has virtually no movements. A field camera would be infinitely more flexible than either.

Welcome to the forum; enjoy!

Thank you for your thoughts Brian.

ic-racer · Apr 16, 2021

I love the look of the wooden field cameras but I do have concerns as they are made of wood.

Contemporary wood field cameras are very high quality and durable. (Shen-Hao, Chamonix, Canham, Lotus, etc.)

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

Paul Howell said:
My Crown and Speed Graphic are wood, have held up for going on 60 or so years. As I don't use a lot of movement my Crown Graphic work well for me, with rangefinder and fast film I can use it on a monopod when setting up a tripod is difficult. If I think I will need more movement I use a early 50s vintage New View, a hyrid view and press camera, has good movements, rotating back but not a easy to carry around as field camera.. If you want o shoot in the field then I recommend a field camera. Or a 4X5 Linhof technical 4X5 camera, more movement than a typical press camera, all metal body, rangefinder, but be prepared to pay.

Thanks Paul.
I would love a Linhof Technica, not sure which model though, as they are all expensive. A friend had one which he loved, and he could easily shoot with a 75mm lens he had.
It's great to hear how long some of these cameras have been used for. I'm sure most will last for decades as long as they are taken care of correctly.

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

ic-racer said:
Contemporary wood field cameras are very high quality and durable. (Shen-Hao, Chamonix, Canham, Lotus, etc.)

View attachment 272419

Thanks ic-racer, i find them so remarkably beautiful.

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

Kodachromeguy said:
You will soon see a ton of answers and "I use XYZ" camera. There are 3 broad classes of 4×5 cameras.
1. Monorail cameras.
2. Folding bed (standards attached to a rigid bed)
A. Wood
B. Aluminum/ magnesium
C. Modern composite
3. Rigid box body for wide angle lenses.

All have been used in the field. An inexpensive version of 2 above would be a great way to learn if large format suits you. On any used units, check for wobble, bellows condition, and knobs that tighten properly. Mr. Kumar often sells cameras here on Photrio; you can check if he has a unit for you.

Have fun!

Thanks Kodachromeguy, I would like to get a 4x5 field camera that has enough movements that I can use a 75mm lens.
Derek

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

voceumana said:
Wooden field cameras are fine; if you want a little more modern materials, there is the Toyo 45AR (which I have). Mono-rail cameras can be used in the field, but are not usually as compact for transportation; in use the size doesn't much matter.

My opinion: 4x5 is a good starting point, 8x10 is very large and heavy and I don't recommend starting there; 5x7 is a nice size, but not as many films are available in 5x7.

Thank you voceumana.

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

btaylor said:
There will be many answers to your question, and the actual use your new camera will get will weigh heavily on the choice you make.
Personally, I find monorails mostly take longer to set up and use outside the studio, but the movements are more flexible, and if you are doing architecture you probably won’t be far from the car and can use a cart. Out in nature if you are hiking for a significant distance a wood or carbon fiber field camera would help with the weight. OTOH, I really like my old Linhof Technika out in the field, it is heavy but sets up quickly and has all the movements I need for landscape. But I don’t hike a great distance from the car either. And as they say over at LFPF, your first large format camera won’t usually be your last, so you don’t need to get that committed on that first purchase. Have fun! And don’t overthink it.

I don't plan on being near the car, and doing some hiking so I feel a wooden field camera would be beneficial. My friend used a Linhof Technika and it did everything he needed it to.
I may have to look towards one even though they are very expensive.

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

jnantz said:
Hi Derek
The only problem that some of the wooden field cameras have is extension. Some wood cameras do not have a long enough bellows or rail extension to use longer (non-telephoto) lenses
so be aware of that limitation, and some might not be able to accommodate short lenses ( shorter than 90mm ). Just make sure whichever one you get has lens boards that are either readily available or easy to make / have made and how squished they can compress the bellows and how far they can extend them. Nothing is ever perfect/without limitations.

Good luck!
John

Thanks foe the information and advice John.

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

BradS said:
Hi and welcome!

and...yes, your concerns about wood field cameras are unfounded as you say.

As for a camera recommendation, it kinda depends upon what and how you want to photograph the landscape but when starting out, it is hard to go wrong with something simple and light weight (although not too pretty) like a Tachihara or pretty like a Wisner Traditional and its close relative the Zone VI. There are many similar cameras....lightweight and sturdy are usually the two primary concerns, oh, and having a standard (linhof tech style or sinar style) lens board is also important (at least to me)!

Thank you Brad, I appreciate the information.

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

Tel said:
Avoid forest fires and termites and you'll be OK. I've got an assortment of old wooden field cameras in all sizes and I love shooting with them. I like the Gundlach cameras the best, I think. Nicely engineered and well finished (though I have to say I don't keep them for their decorative value). A nice thing about the older wooden cameras is that you can make your own lensboards with fairly basic woodworking skills. If you're careful to get one with a rear extension rail, you can extend into the next county. My Kodak View #2 will give me 28 inches of extension. The thing to beware of is old or damaged bellows; they are often afflicted with pinhole light leaks and may need repair or replacement. (Liquid electrical tape is sometimes good for small repairs, and it's fiddly but not impossible work to make a new set of bellows, especially if you have the old ones at hand for a pattern.) Of the three standard formats, my favorite for landscape is 5x7--it's a bit more cinemascope than the other two.

Thank you Tel, that is all useful and helpful information.
Derek

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

ventdesable said:
Hello,

Here is my opinion :

I do own a couple Sinar (F1 & P). I do not own any wooden camera. But I might get one sometime. Not for weight consideration because when you add all the accessories, the camera itself isn't making a lot of difference. But for aesthetic reasons.
What is certain is when I started to play around with that kind of camera ; the fact that a monorail is symmetrical played a huge role in the learning curve. It's a lot easier to understand movements with that kind of camera. Especially with the Sinar F which has a "calculator" : you determine the tilt angle needed on your front (or back) board by setting the near and far point that you want to be in the plane of focus. It also gives you the optimal opening to get every thing sharp between those two points. And when you are a beginner as the one I was... It's a huge help !

Setting up a Norma isn't so long : you can have it on a short bank so that it goes directly in your bag. And just add a longer one to have all you need. A few seconds. And I bet that I can put my F in working order long before anyone finishes to "unfold" his wooden camera ;-)

Lastly, you can find that a Norma is expensive or cheap. That doesn't count. Because the day you decide to sell it you won't loose money.

Jérôme

Thank you for your input and help Jerome. I am trying to glean as much information, opinions etc., before I make a final decision.
Derek

Alan Gales · Apr 16, 2021

This was written by QT Luong for Large Format Photography Forum.

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/matos-begin.html

Ignore the part about Quick Loads and Ready Loads. They don't exist any more. Some people are making Polaroid film again but it's not the same as it used to be.

Photrio is a great forum but since you are interested in large format you should join LFPF as well. Many Photrio members including me are members there too and we would be glad to have you.

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/forum.php

Large format is a different animal. Using sheet film is a lot different from using roll film. I suggest you buy an inexpensive used 4x5 camera to start out with. Learn on it and you will discover if large format is for you. If you really like it you will also discover what you want in a camera. Most of us don't keep our first camera. I started with a 4x5 monorail and then went to a wooden field camera and then later to an 8x10 field camera. If you decide to trade cameras then sell your first camera for close to what you paid. Being used, it's already suffered depreciation. If you do lose a little bit of money selling it just figure any loss as a cheap rental fee.

Welcome to Photrio and large format photography. It's a lot of fun!

abruzzi · Apr 16, 2021

Deke4774 said:
I don't plan on being near the car, and doing some hiking so I feel a wooden field camera would be beneficial. My friend used a Linhof Technika and it did everything he needed it to.
I may have to look towards one even though they are very expensive.

fortunately, Linhof has made the Technika for a very long time, and they’re very well built, so a 40 year old camera can still be very good, even if you not paying that much. I got my Master Technika for ~$700, which is pretty reasonable. Only I’d recommend against the Technika III or earlier. It’s not a big deal but the III and earlier use a different and uncommon lens board. OTOH, the IV and later lens board is probably the most common lens board out there.

grat · Apr 16, 2021

I have to plug the Chamonix since no one else has:

Can handle a 75mm without too much trouble-- minimum draw is 45mm(!). It can handle a reasonable range of movements at 75mm, but not extreme unless you get the bag ("wide angle") bellows.

Deke4774 · Apr 16, 2021

abruzzi said:
fortunately, Linhof has made the Technika for a very long time, and they’re very well built, so a 40 year old camera can still be very good, even if you not paying that much. I got my Master Technika for ~$700, which is pretty reasonable. Only I’d recommend against the Technika III or earlier. It’s not a big deal but the III and earlier use a different and uncommon lens board. OTOH, the IV and later lens board is probably the most common lens board out there.

Thank you for that information abruzzi.
Derek

Looking For Some Advice

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