Looking for quality photo papers that look like the image is IN the paper, not on top

evansol · Feb 9, 2011

Hello all... I have had darkrooms for about 50 years, but stopped for about 7 years, and am back full force in my current darkroom. During that 7 years time, as you know, Kodak has stopped papers completely, Agfa's wonderful Brovira and other papers are no longer being made, and I am trying to find someone's paper that will give me images that look like they are IN the paper.

So many of the papers I have tried in the last year or so look like the image is sitting on TOP of the paper, like it is a plastic coating that the image is sitting on, and not embedded INTO the paper. I expect this with resin coated papers (RC), but I am experiencing this with fiber base papers too.

I would like to hear from any of you about what paper you like to work with, and if you think this paper looks like the 'old' stuff! I especially liked the E surface that Kodak had, which was a soft matte finish with a slight amount of surface texture.

Thanks,

Evan

sandholm · Feb 9, 2011

Hi

Quick respons, look at ADOX MCC 110, http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX_Papers/MCC/MCC.html its probably what you are looking for.

Also, a paper that is also really good but expensive is Ilford Warmtone

cheers

PVia · Feb 9, 2011

Have a look at the new Ilford when it comes out...nice texture from what I've seen and heard.

hpulley · Feb 9, 2011

Ilford WarmTone for sure.

mhanc · Feb 9, 2011

Oriental Seagull FB II is a paper that you might want to look at. It comes in both glossy and matte surface. I find it every bit as good [if not better in some respects] as the Adox MCC 110. I also would highly recommend the Adox Variotone WT paper

ann · Feb 9, 2011

Fiber paper, not RC

Aron · Feb 9, 2011

Contact print?

evansol · Feb 9, 2011

sandholm said:
Hi

Quick respons, look at ADOX MCC 110, http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX_Papers/MCC/MCC.html its probably what you are looking for.

Also, a paper that is also really good but expensive is Ilford Warmtone

cheers

THANK YOU for the suggestion... I hadn't tried any Adox papers yet, and their descriptions on the Freestyle Photo sites look VERY promising!

I am going to order some varieties of this paper, and see how they do with my various negatives. Their papers sound like they have a lot of coatings of the emulsion, and will give me prints that should look like there is a lot of depth to them, just like in the 'good old days'!

Thanks again,

Evan

evansol · Feb 9, 2011

PVia said:
Have a look at the new Ilford when it comes out...nice texture from what I've seen and heard.

I'll be looking for it... I've always liked using Ilford papers and chemicals, but got tired of their few choices of paper surfaces. If only they had something between Pearl and Glossy, I would be happier!

Thank you.

Evan

evansol · Feb 9, 2011

mhanc said:
Oriental Seagull FB II is a paper that you might want to look at. It comes in both glossy and matte surface. I find it every bit as good [if not better in some respects] as the Adox MCC 110. I also would highly recommend the Adox Variotone WT paper

Thank you for the information... I will be trying Adox AND Oriental papers soon, and see what I think of either of them. I don't want to spend all of my days trying out everything there is on the market, but now I think I can narrow things down a bit with these suggestions from the APUGers. I just want to make prints I can be proud of with new materials that are readily available.

Thanks.
Evan

evansol · Feb 10, 2011

Aron said:
Contact print?

I am a big fan of contact printing, but only for sheet film, not my 35mm and 2-1/4 negs.

I have cold-light heads in my Beseler 23CII and Omega D-2 enlargers, which give me almost contact-print-like results for enlargements. Anything larger than my 4x5 negs will be contact printed anyway, since I don't have any enlargers to handle LF.

Thanks, anyway!

Evan

evansol · Feb 10, 2011

Thanks to all of you who already replied to my post... I have to admit that I feel like I am a newbie all over again, with all of the changes in what's available out there... I look at prints I made 30 or 40 years ago and realize that I could never duplicate them again, mostly because the papers are just not available! There are some very good papers being manufactured for ink jet printing, but it's hard to find traditional silver gelatin papers that look like what excited me about darkroom printing all those decades ago! Now, I have some leads to track down, and I appreciate the help from all of you!

Evan

PVia · Feb 10, 2011

You may not be able to find your old favorites, but I assure you that the current crop of silver paper is leagues ahead of inkjet papers...and a hell of a lot less expensive.

Simon R Galley · Feb 10, 2011

Dear Evansol,

We do make a MGIV RC paper between GLOSS and PEARL its called SATIN Code surface 25M :

Reading your requirements it sounds like an FB paper you really want, regardless, enjoy your printing, if you PM me your address I will send you the MULTIGRADE printing manual, it should save you a few sheets of paper and help you get back in the swing....

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

sandholm · Feb 10, 2011

evansol said:
THANK YOU for the suggestion... I hadn't tried any Adox papers yet, and their descriptions on the Freestyle Photo sites look VERY promising!

I am going to order some varieties of this paper, and see how they do with my various negatives. Their papers sound like they have a lot of coatings of the emulsion, and will give me prints that should look like there is a lot of depth to them, just like in the 'good old days'!

Thanks again,

Evan

Personal I more or less only use Adox and Ilford Warmtone, and I really recommend both. They have different qualities and both respond to different developers in different way. Personal I have got some really nice prints from Adox with Ilford Warmtone developer. Personal I right now only use Adox and Ilford papers.

Just skip the RC papers, if you want the image to be "inside" the paper, then you have to go fiber based.

cheers

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 10, 2011

All papers are great papers today. I really like a matte surface, where both Foma and Ilford shines.

There is a Foma paper that is very reminiscent of the old Agfa Multicontrast / Portriga / Brovira matter surfaces, the 118, if you remember it? If you can imagine the surface of a curling rink, which is 'knobby' from being prepared by water drops being sprayed on it, which of course freezes.
The Foma paper is the Foma Fomabrom Variant 123. There is also a Foma Fomatone Classic 133.
Their nomenclature works such that the last out of the three digits describe their surface, 1 = glossy, 2 = matte, and 3 = velvet semi matte. So all their papers with a 3 as their last digit will have this very lush and beautiful surface.
Now the second letter tells about warmtone or standard tone. They don't really have any cold tone papers, as far as I'm concerned, but a 2 is the number that also describe this velvet semi-matte paper, and a 3 stands for warmtone. A 1 stands for the more 'normal' tone of the matte and glossy Fomabrom 111 and 112.
The Foma standard surface exhibits some warm tone; I think due to the paper base, which isn't completely white like Ilford's Multigrade IV. But it's a very beautiful paper, and it has a bit of surface texture that you seem to be looking for.
Best of all - the Fomabrom is really affordable, while the Fomatone is as expensive as Ilford.

Good luck. Send me a PM if you want more info on the Foma or Ilford papers. I have a fair bit of experience with both.

- Thomas

Jeff Kubach · Feb 10, 2011

I have good luck with Adox paper, myself.

Jeff

pentaxuser · Feb 10, 2011

evansol said:
I'll be looking for it... I've always liked using Ilford papers and chemicals, but got tired of their few choices of paper surfaces. If only they had something between Pearl and Glossy, I would be happier!

Thank you.

Evan

If you mean less of a sheen than Ilford Pearl then Satin may be your thing as Simon Galley has said but if you want something in between Pearl and Glossy then Jessops Lustre fitted this bill for me.

Jessops no longer sells its "own" paper so it is no longer made for Jessops but when it was made I think that it was made by Agfa. The filtration values were exactly the same as Agfa.

It might be that Adox using the Agfa process gets very close to this with what I think it chooses to call "Semi-Matte"

Worth a look maybe

pentaxuser

darkroom_rookie · Feb 10, 2011

Aren't some of Adox papers made by Fotokemika?

Black Dog · Feb 10, 2011

Another Adox and Foma fan...also love Ilford Galerie.

evansol · Feb 11, 2011

THANK YOU ALL for your help and suggestions! I feel I am on the right track now, and will be trying out these papers... I just was frustrated not having a starting point and a direction to go into, where for more than 40 years, I had figured out what worked for me, using papers that were always available. Who knew that Kodak and Agfa would stop making papers? It would have sounded ridiculous to say that 30 years ago, but it's a reality now! Nice to know that there are some great papers out there now, and I intend to zero in on them!

Thanks again, APUGers... it's one of the great things about this online experience at APUG: information flows very smoothly when someone presents a problem that has solutions.

Evan

Nicholas Lindan · Feb 12, 2011

A bit off course, but the ultimate 'image in the paper' look comes from platinum prints. Some of the same look can come from toned cyanotypes and Van Dykes.

evansol · Feb 12, 2011

Images that have a depth into the paper...

Nicholas Lindan said:
A bit off course, but the ultimate 'image in the paper' look comes from platinum prints. Some of the same look can come from toned cyanotypes and Van Dykes.

I love doing Cyanotypes more than Van Dykes, which need to be fixed. I am happier making Cyanotypes and then lately, I have been playing with toning them in coffee or tea! The tea, mostly Lipton standard tea, is very cheap from a super market, and if I don't leave the print in the tea solution too long, the image tones to a beautiful golden brown, while the paper base remains mostly white.

Platinum is something far off in the distance for me right now, but I'm interested in exploring that, too.

Thank you for the comments, Nicholas.

Evan

mattmoy_2000 · Feb 12, 2011

What about salt-prints. You use the fibrous mass of the paper to hold the silver chloride that you make, so the image actually is in the paper and not coated on top.

evansol · Feb 14, 2011

What about salt prints - the image is in the paper...

mattmoy_2000 said:
What about salt-prints. You use the fibrous mass of the paper to hold the silver chloride that you make, so the image actually is in the paper and not coated on top.

Yet another process I haven't gotten to yet! I think I will be working with salt printing later this spring or into summer... I'm having fun exploring processes that were being done 150 years ago- it's very satisfying to go back to the foundations of photography, and not be exactly sure of the final result until it's dry in your hands!

Thank you for the question.

Evan

Looking for quality photo papers that look like the image is IN the paper, not on top

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