Looking for paper recommendations

[gone]

Does anyone have a good paper to recommend? My $15 Lentar enlarger makes sharper and more contrastier prints than the old expensive Durst ever did. Might be a condenser vs diffuser thing. Whatever it is, I now need a paper that is better suited to this enlarger.

The prints on the left were made w/ the Durst on Arista EDU Ultra VC RC, and the prints on the right with the Lentar on Ilford MGRC Multigrade RC Deluxe. Not an exact comparison, just wanted to show what I prefer, which is the Ilford paper (mostly because of the whiter base on it).

I'd prefer RC because I don't want to fight fiber's curl, but fiber would work if it gives a sufficiently interesting/different image, and either warmer or colder is OK. Trying to keep this around $200 for 100 sheets of 11x14, which may be off the mark, but I'll spend more to get more. I loved MCC 110, but it went away. Thanks!

 

[grain elevator]

Why not stick with Ilford? Are you missing anything? The choices in RC are limited. I've had issues with a weird surface texture, but one can hope...

 

[gone]

Weird surface texture would sure put me off. I don't know that I'm missing anything (other than the MCC 110, which is long gone), and the Ilford papers seem to be darned good, but I think I'd like something different. Not all my negs are suited for this paper. Might be smarter to get 50 sheets of one thing and 50 of another.

There's a lot of people here that know much more about this than me, and it would help to hear what papers they like. It's time to spend some serious time in the darkroom and improve my limited printing skills.

 

[pentaxuser]

The latest RC paper from Ilford which is called "Deluxe" ( often still referred to as MGV) seems to be a real improvement on the former Ilford MGRC IV and is available in 3 surfaces: Glossy; Pearl ( like a lustre finish) or Satin (matt)

I am based in the U.K. so cannot say what he cost will be for someone in the U.S.

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

The Warmtone Ilford RC paper is quite nice.
My favorite is the Cooltone Ilford RC paper, because through choice of toners I can achieve a real selection of image tones, including some really interesting split tones. The Cooltone paper is surprisingly effective when toned using a brown or sepia (warm) toner.
Both Warmtone and Cooltone paper versions are more expensive than the standard tone options.

 

[Paul Howell]

I've been happy with Multitone from B&H as well as Photo Wearhouse's house band. 50 sheets is like $65.00 + shipping.

 

[grain elevator]

I don't think anyone but Harman, Foma and Adox makes RC paper (house brands are probably made by one of them), right ? Those are our choices...
MattKing, I'd very much like to see examples of those split tones with cold tone paper if you can post them!

 

[MattKing]

MattKing, I'd very much like to see examples of those split tones with cold tone paper if you can post them!

Let me look - the printing darkroom was shut down for a year, and I don't know that I can easily put my hands on an example.

 

[gone]

I'm not ready to try toning, but that warmtone you recommended Matt looks interesting. Here in the US it's $30+ for 10. 100 sheets would cost $300 plus tax and shipping. Not that pricey really for good, largish paper.

50 sheets of the Multitone for $65 + shipping is pretty amazing. Went to the website and it's now $63 w/ free shipping. Wonder how white the base is? The specs say it has a contrast range of 00-4, while the Ilford MGRC Deluxe Glossy I printed on yesterday was 00-5. I'm guessing that means just what it says, and it would be better suited for well exposed negs? Or something. I like bright whites and deep blacks.

This is all so much more difficult to figure out compared to just stuffing Tri-X in a camera and getting great results no matter what.

Freestyle has Bergger Prestige RC, Fomaspeed 311 Variant, and Kentmere Select RC at the econo level, but these are totally unknown to me as well.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Only way to know if you will like something is to use it. You might buy a few different types in smaller sizes. Personally I think life is too short to mess around with "cheap" paper even though I do sometimes. I'll use cheap RC paper just to get an image on paper sometimes.

One piece of advice though is you can never go wrong with fresh Ilford.

It is possible that your Arista paper was old. Paper loses contrast as it ages. After a couple years it loses a little zippity-do-da.

 

[MattKing]

I'm not ready to try toning, but that warmtone you recommended Matt looks interesting. Here in the US it's $30+ for 10. 100 sheets would cost $3000 plus tax and shipping.

I think your decimal must have wandered - $240.00 USD + tax at B & H for two 50 sheet boxes: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._1902587_Multigrade_Warmtone_RC_11x14_50.html

 

[gone]

I'm going to correct that now. Maybe I'd better put the paper money toward a calculator.

 

[Paul Howell]

Buy a box of 5X7 and a box of Photo Wearhouse house brand 5X7, print a negative you printed in the past and use that as reference, print grade 2 to 4, adjust your developer dilution until you find a combo you like, then get the 11X14.

Variable Contrast RC Black-and-White Multigrade Paper | Ultrafine VC ELITE Glossy Variable Contrast RC Paper 5 x 7 / 25

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[pentaxuser]

I've been happy with Multitone from B&H as well as Photo Wearhouse's house band. 50 sheets is like $65.00 + shipping.

So is this paper the cheapest there is i.e. it beats the price of Ilford, Foma or Adox? If its from B&H, does it have the money to contract any of these companies to make its own paper called MULTITONE, assuming it is made to a different formula from any of Foma's Adox' or Ilford papers?

Or might it be that it is exactly the same paper as is currently made by one of the three above and B&H has been able to sell it cheaper - somehow?

If it is the same paper then presumably it has been able to buy it at a price that gives the maker a profit as well as B&H a profit or it may be that the B&H price is a break-even one or even a loss leader?

Lots of questions. Any answers?

pentaxuser

 

[Paul Howell]

There only a handful of paper manufactures, (by a handful 2 maybe 3) brand papers are made by one or the other Harmon or Foma, but who knows who else make make paper to order. I would hazard to guess that Adorama, B&H and PW place a large order, PW might package as well. Now that the UK is no longer in the EU we will know either made in the UK or EU.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Yes, a condenser light source will print contrastier than a diffusion one. You compensate with different contrast filtration, different film development or a combination. Today's VC papers are capable of all the contrast difference you should need.

I love the MC-110 too and am awaiting its return. In the meantime, it is Ilford MG Classic in fiber-base for me. I like the Foma (Arista) products too, but, like you, prefer the whiter whites of the Ilford paper.

Doremus

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Does anyone have a good paper to recommend?...the prints on the right with the Lentar on Ilford MGRC Multigrade RC Deluxe...wanted to show what I prefer, which is the Ilford paper (mostly because of the whiter base on it)...

I strongly suggest you go with the new Ilford Multigrade RC Portfolio Pearl. I've just printed on it and not only find the heavier base wonderful to handle, its surface looks very nice too. It's the same emulsion as your preferred choice above.

 

[gone]

So far Sal, my favorite enlargements "post MCC 110" are also on Ilford MG Classic FB.

Good advice Paul. I might do that. Glad to hear that Ultrafine is putting out good products. Their older 120 films gave me lots of headaches w/ numbers on the backing paper bleeding onto the neg.

Very happy w/ this Ilford paper, so I ordered more of the Ilford MGRC Multigrade Deluxe, and will try some of the Fomaspeed 311 Variant. Nearly all of the other Foma papers were out of stock.

 

[lantau]

I have a box of 8x10 Fomaspeed 311 for making contact sheets. The glossy surface is quite dull, though. Like dull plexiglass. Not attractive, but good for this purpose. I wonder if this is what all Foma glossy RC papers look like? I'd appreciate if you could report back when you have your 311, @momus.

Adox and Ilford glossy RC papers are lovely. Though my Ilford is gifted from someone, who cleaned out his darkroom leftovers, and quite old. Early 90s. Seems to print like new with the normal MGIV RC profile in my Heiland split grade. For FB papers, the surface of glossy Fomabrom 111 looks just as good as Adox MCP 111.

I do love the Foma RC 312 surface. I'm lucky to still have some of their discontinued Fomatone RC papers with that surface. Its a much finer grained matte effect than Adox MCP 312, which I find unattractive. Too rough.

I'm using a pack of 18x24cm² Fomaspeed 312 currently. Normally I print on 24x30cm², which is my preferred larger format. The smaller format (I'd call it the largest of the small formats) is more convenient to hand around to people. It does save a lot of money when printing lots of negatives to see what I've got and RC paper is so convenient.

In the long term it would be a shame if Ilford RC were the only good glossy paper left. Ilford papers are quite expensive. Fotoimpex keeps their FB MCC papers in the shop (but unavailable) while they removed their RC MCP papers completely. Maybe they do not see production of RC paper on their own machines as commercially viable?