Looking for lenses

Absinthe, thanks for the long reply. I'm glad that you like me. I like you too. And I'm delighted that you know who Don Knuth is. I've met Comp. Sci. BAs who never heard of him and weren't aware that compilations of algorithms exist. I'm even more delighted that you have Steve Simmons' book and are reading FAQs.

About shutters. Look for Mentor and Rakurs cameras, also Thornton Pickard roller blind, for examples of behind the lens curtain shutters and for LUC shutter for an example of an in-front-of-the-lens leaf shutter. There are others of both types.

Packard and Sinar Copal shutters are leaf shutters that are made to go behind a lensboard. There are similar electronically timed leaf shutters for process cameras that can be adapted to cameras with large enough boards. So putting a leaf shutter behind the board is possible, but readily available shutters aren't made to be used this way.

I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. If you've had a 35 mm camera with a focal plane shutter and seen a lens in shutter, be it on a 35 mm folder or on something larger, you've seen the widely-used solutions. To learn more, look for "shutter efficiency." Come to think of it, some 35 mm leaf shutter SLRs had the shutter completely behind the lens. Not a viable approach, it is dead.

I gather that you, like many of us, are trying to do things on the cheap. Fine, wonderful, but there are good reasons why few of us make our own shutters or use shutters from SLRs to time exposures with large lenses.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan

A good thing for you to do is run some quick lists.

A. what you have
B. what you need
C. what you want

Then you can figure out what you can live with (somewhere between B and C)

I see you have 2 calumet 4x5 cameras, not sure what lenses you have.
If you just need a lens to get you started, you can get a decent 127-150mm lens for around $50-$70 on ebay. Optar, Raptar, Tessar, etc.

Need something cheaper than $50? You can find stuff dirt cheap if you are willing to make some compromizes. uncoated lenses, lenses without shutters, adapted lenses, less than 4x5 coverage, etc.

Shutter or no shutter? Having a working shutter makes things alot easier, but is not a neccesity if you know how to work it. Stopping down a lens to f32+ will make for a long exposure, and for long exposures you can just use a lenscap or hat and a stopwatch.


Help me help you:
What do you have?
if you allready have a normal lens and are looking for a wide-angle or a longer lens, that makes a huge difference. Also, dont forget about other accessories you may need. There are essentials like film holders, dark cloth, cable release, tripod, filters, developing equipment.
What is your budget?
If your budget is really $0, please say so. people here are generally helpful and will probably donate stuff if you really cant afford anything. Or offer to sell/trade your 2nd camera for gear.
What do you want to do?
if you want to do superwide ladscapes on a $0 budget, your best bet is probably a pinhole. if you want to do portraits, longer lenses can be found but generally a slightly-long lens in the 180-240mm range works great. You dont need the telephoto lenses like on 35mm.

Thanks Dan! I have never actually met Don Knuth, nor some of the other folks that pioneered this industry. I was saddened when I heard that Grace Hopper had died and I would never get to meet her. I always wanted one of her nanoseconds

I am not exactly trying to do this on the cheap, I have poured a fair amount more than I wanted to into this rebirth as it is. I will, no doubt, pour thousands more into it before all is said and done. I believe I have posted my story here somewhere already, but suffice it to say, I spent much of my childhood eating and breathing photography. When I had extra money it went for a new lens, or film or paper or whatever... And like other artists my parents convinced me that it not a real procession and that I should pursue something more lucrative and I can do that as a hobby. Anyway, around age 25 or so, I had started a studio, moved states and was trying to get it back up and going in a newer less affluent area, was working full time and so was my wife, we had one kid and one on the way, and I was enrolled in college full time. Something had to give and I ended up liquidating the studio and darkroom and every little piece of equipment I had ever collected (since about age 10). I could from that time on not even look at a camera the same way. I no longer had any interest in the art or the process. I killed the worlds best hobby.

My son (the one that was on the way) is now in high school, and taking his second year of photography, and I had to explain to him the other day what 18% gray was, as well as zones, and that when you bracket exposures, you only chnage one of the speed or f-stop However, for the first time in nearly 20 years
I felt the spark, the burning, the love of the art and craft and process all over again. So I did what I said I would always do and that was move right to large format. Where the art and craft is caringly and lovingly and painstakingly performed through the journey and the destination takes care of itself.

It doesn't hurt to get things on the cheap, especially if they are useful. There are, in every field, things they "don't make like they used to" some of which for good reason, and others for planned obsolescence. In all things, I would prefer to get some piece of equipment that already knows how to do its job, because it has been doing it for 100 years already and is in no way ready to stop. I have some hand tools, turn of the century wood planes, and pliers and such that I wouldn't trade for a brand new shiny version ever. Many of them I have restored from rusted trash to the point they can and do make very fine cabinetry. I assume the same is true for lenses and cameras and so forth. So I hate to see a piece of glass go to waste, that can be helping me take my next masterpiece or even my next flop, simply because I turned my nose up at it for looking or being too old.

We (my wife and I) junk for the joy of junking. Like guys that fish, we are not necessarily trying to put food on the table with it, but the joy of the 8 lb bass in amongst a day full of catching piles of sunnies well that is the same thing we are looking for. I will eventually learn all I need to recognise a bargain, and since I mentionned books, I am also working through Phil Davis' book BTZS, Ansel Adams' The Negative, and Ed Romney's book on repair too. It is all going slowly but baby steps.. right?

I also am in the process of coming up with a business plan for a non-profit for:
"""
Furtherance and Preservation of (Non-Digital) Photography as a "Fine Art"
With emphasis on it being Taught in Middle and High Schools.

There is a lot to this, but from what I heard from at least one school teacher, arts in general are losing funding in the school system. And due to the costs and availability of manual and non digital equipment, and darkroom costs as well, many are considering dropping it altogether. I will be looking for other like minded individuals and angel donors and such. I am also working on my basic service and repair skills to the end of collecting working and perhaps not-so-working equipment and repairing it to be usable in these environments, for donation to this program. I will also be interested in writing a curriculum to be made available, to cover up to possibly 4 years (or more) study, building one upon the other.
"""


So just in case you are intersted that is where I am coming from..

-- B

darinwc said:

A good thing for you to do is run some quick lists.

A. what you have
B. what you need
C. what you want

Then you can figure out what you can live with (somewhere between B and C)

I see you have 2 calumet 4x5 cameras, not sure what lenses you have.
If you just need a lens to get you started, you can get a decent 127-150mm lens for around $50-$70 on ebay. Optar, Raptar, Tessar, etc.

Need something cheaper than $50? You can find stuff dirt cheap if you are willing to make some compromizes. uncoated lenses, lenses without shutters, adapted lenses, less than 4x5 coverage, etc.

Shutter or no shutter? Having a working shutter makes things alot easier, but is not a neccesity if you know how to work it. Stopping down a lens to f32+ will make for a long exposure, and for long exposures you can just use a lenscap or hat and a stopwatch.


Help me help you:
What do you have?
if you allready have a normal lens and are looking for a wide-angle or a longer lens, that makes a huge difference. Also, dont forget about other accessories you may need. There are essentials like film holders, dark cloth, cable release, tripod, filters, developing equipment.
What is your budget?
If your budget is really $0, please say so. people here are generally helpful and will probably donate stuff if you really cant afford anything. Or offer to sell/trade your 2nd camera for gear.
What do you want to do?
if you want to do superwide ladscapes on a $0 budget, your best bet is probably a pinhole. if you want to do portraits, longer lenses can be found but generally a slightly-long lens in the 180-240mm range works great. You dont need the telephoto lenses like on 35mm.

Click to expand...

What I have now is:

2 calumet 400 flavor cameras, one of them prtty normal and the other is a hybrid. Seems, that someone bought a 402 and put it on a long rail and then bellowsed it with a regular sized bellows. I flipped the standards and the knobs so that it operates like a normal one, but it still has the recessed front lens holder. I have debated looking for a wide (double pleated bellows) for this and converting it back to such but that would necessitate getting a wide lens.

I have a small stack of film holders, and a wollensack 7" lens for 5x7 in a shutter that seems to operate well enough.

I also have a polaroid mp-4 except for the baseboard and lights. With it I have a 135 tominon lens, that I am in the process of servicing the shutter, though since it sounds like it is not such a great piece of glass, I may simply put it back on the mp-4 and sell/trade it off to further my other stuff.

I lucked out on a Omega d5xl with an ilford 500 head. I finally got the light boxes for it, which I will have to rebuild and a control panel as well. Of course in the same breath I also have a Omega D2 with three lenses and cones and such and some easles, trays, tanks, film, paper, and chemistry.

I have an old luna pro meter that I am using wein cells in, though I may be installing a diode at some point to bring it back to silver cells. I also have an old-as-dirt wesson meter (no batteries )

I have no dark cloth, no bulb release, no working cable release.

I have a quick set tripod that you could kill a horse with. With the camera mounted and set all the way up, it almost touches my ceiling. Nice and heavy and steady.

I also have a Kodak reflex II that I have converted to use 120 and am in the process of servicing that shutter too, and removing the grease from the blades. Of course, once done, I will run a roll of film through it, but that is not the format in which my interests lie. It will no doubt find a home with my daughter, my son, or some lucky individual on eBay

I also have a complete set of light boxes for Ilford 400 head. I also have an Omega D5500 dichroic head that appears to work, but a controlpanel for it that does not.

Personally, I want to do mostly "normal" work, with the occasional architectural or (wide) tall tree shot or long fence row... It would be nice to be able to do a portrait or two of my wife or kids. And, I love macro work.

I will also be building some cameras and other eqipment simply for the pleasure of doing so, but in the process will gear them towards some need at the time. There are several designs I have come to posess and will make a few of these exactly and others probably only "sort of" based on them so on.

I have some additional interest in pinhole and once the darkroom is setup and I can have some immediate gratification will be doing a bit of that too.

Eventually, the whole alternative process stuff will come into play, and at least once in my life before I die, I will make an image from start to finish completely from something I have created with materials I have hand mixed, coated, and so forth.

Obviously, everything I have but don't need is available for barter for those things I do need. Much of it will eventually just be digiphaphed and put on eBay, since I am not a "subscriber here" so can't use the Classifieds.

I just want to know how you "accidently" wind up with a 4x5 camera!

Ah Donald E. Knuth - the man behind Structured Programming, and the Potrzeebie...

PeteZ8 said:

I just want to know how you "accidently" wind up with a 4x5 camera!

Click to expand...

I have no difficulty understanding that. Accidentally winding up with three 8x10" cameras is a lot more difficult to explain - at least to my wife!

Ole said:

I have no difficulty understanding that. Accidentally winding up with three 8x10" cameras is a lot more difficult to explain - at least to my wife!

Click to expand...

There was a commercial not too long ago in which a woman walking home eventually had a trail of shoes trotting behind her. When she got back to her startled beau all she said was, "They followed me home!" I'm hoping for something similar to one day happen with photo gear...

Justin Silber said:

... "They followed me home!" I'm hoping for something similar to one day happen with photo gear...

Click to expand...

Don't tell anyone - but they breed in dark closets!

That goes for shoes (according to my wife) and cameras (according to me) both.

Justin Silber said:

There was a commercial not too long ago in which a woman walking home eventually had a trail of shoes trotting behind her. When she got back to her startled beau all she said was, "They followed me home!" I'm hoping for something similar to one day happen with photo gear...

Click to expand...

OT: one of the women i work with bought a pair of red leather shoes for about $200 and had them shipped to her work address so her husband wouldnt know. Too bad I cant do that.. my wife works with me.

PeteZ8 said:

I just want to know how you "accidently" wind up with a 4x5 camera!

Click to expand...

Probably the same way I "accidentally" ended up with 4 2x3 graphics, 3 4x5 graphics and a graphic view.

Ole said:

Ah Donald E. Knuth - the man behind Structured Programming, and the Potrzeebie...

Click to expand...

I may be succumbing to the Bell Labs disease (it was invented here), but wasn't The Elements of Programming Style written by B. Kernigan and P. Plauger? And I don't think that Knuth was implicated in Dijkstra's letter "Go to statement considered harmful." I mean, that letter launched the idea that structure programming was preferable ...

Not relevant at all, but The Elements, which I encountered in 1976, had a huge effect on my coding style.

PeteZ8 said:

I just want to know how you "accidently" wind up with a 4x5 camera!

Click to expand...

Well, I thought I was just buying a case. It was a little high on shipping, but seems now-a-days everyone tries to rape you on shipping on eBay, so I didn't think much of it. When I got it, it had the camera in it. When I reread the ad, it was obvious that it included the camera. Lucky me.

Of course the silly MP-4 was an accident too. When bought my d5xl and went to pick it up, the fellow couldn't find the controller. Then, he says you see anything here you like. So I noticed the polaroid back, well three of them, then he starts saying, "here, this says polaroid too", then he says, "hey, you need a tripod?" and hands me the quick set.. Sometimes it pays to do local pickup on eBay items, even if it is a couple hundred miles...

Absinthe said:

Well, I thought I was just buying a case. It was a little high on shipping, but seems now-a-days everyone tries to rape you on shipping on eBay, so I didn't think much of it. When I got it, it had the camera in it. When I reread the ad, it was obvious that it included the camera. Lucky me.

Click to expand...

The reason I ask, is I bought a Calumet 4x5 camera, in a case from the big 'Bay about a week and a half ago and it has not arrived, nor has the USPS tracking # proven useful. It was only $60 something shipped, but if I got scammed, I want to file a PayPal dispute immediately!

For a minute I was thinking someone accidently shipped you a camera when you were supposed to get something else

Although low feeback, seller seems legit with recent feedbacks and it looks like all of the items are shot on the same background, including some photo related items. Plus, like I said, it was only $60 shipped.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120239882958

You outbid me on that one. Didn't you get the guy's contact info? Like phone number? It should be available, check the "contact seller"

Sorry about that!

I didn't go through the "contact seller" route yet. They did send me an Ebay message this morning asking if I recieved the camera yet, they have not yet replied to me. There is a chance it's been delayed in the mail, I was having it shipped to my parents address and they recently moved, as in, today, but I believe they had their mail forwarded several days ago. For the time being I'm assuming it's just lost in the shuffle. At least now I know you didn't buy something else from them and they shipped you my 4x5 by mistake!

Might also be lost in the April 15th crunch. I had two items ship on the 14th - the tracking numbers still have not been updated beyond saying they were received into the system. Wouldn't be the first time that USPS was displaying "was electronically notified" and the package had already been delivered. And don't get me started on the communication skills of some ebay sellers.

Well, never use the USPS near Apr 15, Mothers Day, or Christmas and you will be fine. Give it some time and make contact with your seller and be assured, I didn't get yours.

Ok, well now that I have all this info, I have just been informed by the "boss", that my budget is gone... some nonsense about paying bills and kids in college and something she called food.

I guess it is time to start looking for cells, and shutters and barrels and see what I can find "on the cheap" or for trade for what I have that I don't need. I wonder how I would look in a bowler hat

Absinthe said:

Well, never use the USPS near Apr 15, Mothers Day, or Christmas and you will be fine. Give it some time and make contact with your seller and be assured, I didn't get yours.

Click to expand...

\

Good point!

Wasn't my choice, that's just what the seller used.

Hopefully it comes, did you get the guy's phone yet?

Well, as of today it has been 10 days. For a package that size, and considering the time of year, that may not be an inordinate amout of time; although it is only a few hundred miles away.

If I do not see or hear anything tonighit, I think I will. At least PP will cover me up to $200.

Absinthe I'm sorry I don't mean to derail your thread

Pete, don't worry about derailing me, I am pretty sure this thread has come pretty close to its conclusion anyway.

I am seeing a lot of enlarger lenses lately, many of them are going pretty cheap. All of them are going for at least 1 cent more than I bid as a matter of fact I assume that they are not going to be all that good at infinity, but they would have to be pretty good at macro and closeup work right? Or are they the same lense they would sell for a camera, just marked as enlarging and not mounted in a shutter?

Absinthe, it depends on the lens. Some makers badged identical lenses for taking and for enlarging. Others sold lenses optimized for performance at distance as taking lenses, ones optimized for closeup as enlarging lenses. Nikon, Rodenstock, and Schneider are in the latter group. Wander over to http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/archiv.htm to read what Schneider says about their enlarging lenses' optimizations. I don't know about Wollensak or EKCo.

Not directly relevant, but I've shot a 4"/5.6 Enlarging Pro Raptar at distance. Not particularly good. I've also shot it closeup (1:8 to 4:1) against a known good 100/6.3 Luminar and an even better 100/6.3 Neupolar. On the emulsion I used it was as good as the Luminar; this at the same apertures, of course. All of these lenses were used facing normally, not reversed as we all know is necessary when working above 1:1 (unless the lens was made to be used above 1:1). From which I conclude that the Wolly is pretty nearly symmetrical.

One EKCo observation. They claim that the 50/4.5 and 75/4.5 Enlarging Ektars are very good above 1:1 mounted normally. When I was testing "macro" lenses I found this to be very true. But these are heliar types. Symmetry, again.