Looking for conclusive answer to the question: Will any Shirley Wellard 35mm reusable cassette work in my Leica MP?

megamanjan · Feb 22, 2025

I've found many discussions about reusable cassettes and many mention the SW cassette but nowhere can i find an answer to whether Shirley Wellard 35mm cassette will work in my Leica MP. Any one know/tried?

I want to use a labyrinthine cassette because i always (eventually) get scratched film when using regular velvet light trap cassettes.

Don_ih · Feb 22, 2025

According to Roger Hicks here, no, it won't work.

megamanjan · Feb 22, 2025

Don_ih said:
According to Roger Hicks here, no, it won't work.

Thank you.

That is very unfortunate.

I wonder if there are any labyrinthine reloadable cassettes that will work with my camera?

Don_ih · Feb 22, 2025

You should look at this thread and see if your baseplate will open the IXMOO cassettes. If not, I think you're out of luck.

Besk · Feb 22, 2025

The Shirley Wellard cassette was designed to work in all 35mm cameras. It is not a direct replacement for IXMOO cassettes which open and close with the key in the base plate of certain cameras.

Once adjusted for a specific camera it will work similarly to a regular cassette but will not open and close like a IXMOO. You have to close it manually.

The baseplate from an older Wetzlar-made M6 will open and close IXMOO cassettes. Mabybe you can obtain one and if it fits, use it on your MP.

JerseyDoug · Feb 22, 2025

The Shirley-Wellard will only work with 35mm cameras that have a pull-up rewind knob. When the S-W is correctly adjusted the rewind knob will sit slightly raised. The S-W is opened and closed by pressing down on and turning the rewind knob.

pentaxuser · Feb 22, 2025

Besk said:
The Shirley Wellard cassette was designed to work in all 35mm cameras. It is not a direct replacement for IXMOO cassettes which open and close with the key in the base plate of certain cameras.

Once adjusted for a specific camera it will work similarly to a regular cassette but will not open and close like a IXMOO. You have to close it manually.

The baseplate from an older Wetzlar-made M6 will open and close IXMOO cassettes. Mabybe you can obtain one and if it fits, use it on your MP.

Not wishing to start an argument but for the sake of the OP it is important that this question of will or won't a SW work in a Leica so can I ask what your assertion that it will work is based on such as actual experience or a source you can rely on?

I have no idea if Roger Hicks was correct or not and unfortunately no-one can now ask him but as far as I know he was a long time user of Leicas and did seem to write a very knowledgeable article in Don's link

pentaxuser

JerseyDoug · Feb 22, 2025

My personal experience is that a S-W will not work in a Barnack Leica or a Nikon F but it will work in a Nikon F6. I do not have a M Leica but, again based on my experience, if it does not have a pull-up rewind knob the S-W will not work.

Don_ih · Feb 22, 2025

pentaxuser said:
I have no idea if Roger Hicks was correct or not

Unless someone steps in to illustrate that those can be successfully used, I don't see any reason to doubt him.

megamanjan · Feb 22, 2025

Don_ih said:
You should look at this thread and see if your baseplate will open the IXMOO cassettes. If not, I think you're out of luck.

i believe the MP and M7 film cavity is too small regardless of baseplate

megamanjan · Feb 22, 2025

Im going to buy one and test it and write back for everyone.

megamanjan · Feb 22, 2025

What i would like to know also is this: what bulk loaders work with the SW cannisters? I believe some work and others don't.

Don_ih · Feb 22, 2025

megamanjan said:
i believe the MP and M7 film cavity is too small regardless of baseplate

Too small for an IXMOO? I doubt it.

Besk · Feb 22, 2025

JerseyDoug said:
My personal experience is that a S-W will not work in a Barnack Leica or a Nikon F but it will work in a Nikon F6. I do not have a M Leica but, again based on my experience, if it does not have a pull-up rewind knob the S-W will not work.

You may be correct.

pentaxuser · Feb 23, 2025

megamanjan said:
What i would like to know also is this: what bulk loaders work with the SW cannisters? I believe some work and others don't.

This is interesting. Intuitively I see of no reason why a SW cassette should not work with any of the bulk loaders. Is this because the SW is too long or wide for some bulk loader but yet fits most cameras?

What was the source from which you heard that some work and some don't ?

Thanks

pentaxuser

megamanjan · Feb 23, 2025

JerseyDoug said:
My personal experience is that a S-W will not work in a Barnack Leica or a Nikon F but it will work in a Nikon F6. I do not have a M Leica but, again based on my experience, if it does not have a pull-up rewind knob the S-W will not work.

you have tried it in an f6 yourself? do you have one SW cassette or more than one?

megamanjan · Feb 23, 2025

pentaxuser said:
This is interesting. Intuitively I see of no reason why a SW cassette should not work with any of the bulk loaders. Is this because the SW is too long or wide for some bulk loader but yet fits most cameras?

What was the source from which you heard that some work and some don't ?

Thanks

pentaxuser

don't recall. it was a post about a few different loaders and that SW only worked on one or two of the posters selection

benjiboy · Feb 23, 2025

I met Ken Corfield a couple of times many years ago (one of the inventors of of the Shirley Wellard cassettes) he told me that the name comes from Shirley, a district of Birmingham U.K where a small engineering firm made them, and they thought if they made a profit out of it ,it would be Wellard earned.

pentaxuser · Feb 23, 2025

benjiboy said:
I met Ken Corfield a couple of times many years ago (one of the inventors of of the Shirley Wellard cassettes) he told me that the name comes from Shirley, a district of Birmingham U.K where a small engineering firm made them, and they thought if they made a profit out of it ,it would be Wellard earned.

pentaxuser

JerseyDoug · Feb 23, 2025

megamanjan said:
you have tried it in an f6 yourself? do you have one SW cassette or more than one?

Here is my one and only Shirley-Wellard in my F6. The labyrinth is open so you can see the orientation of the cassette. Note that the F6 rewind knob is pushed up by the S-W. This is necessary because the labyrinth is opened and closed by pressing down on the rewind knob, which compresses the springs in the S-W, and turning the knob clockwise to close or counter clockwise to open.

JerseyDoug · Feb 23, 2025

FWIW none of my bulk loaders (Watson 66, Watson 100, Alden 74) will work with the Shirley-Wellard. They can open and close the labyrinth but the S-W spins out of correct alignment when the crank is turned to load the film. The problem is that the part in the loader that keeps the cassette itself from turning does not extend far enough to contact the vestigial bit on the S-W (the shiny bit at the bottom of the S-W in my photo above). And I doubt that one of the Lloyd or similar bulk loaders would work because they have no way to press the end of the S-W. I would like to find a bulk loader that does work with a S-W so I don't have to load it by hand in the dark.

Don_ih · Feb 24, 2025

Given the way the thing works, the part that needs to move up and down (the rewind post) does not move up and down in a Leica where the film is put in from the bottom (might work in a Leicaflex). The rewind post moves up and down in back-loading cameras so the cassette can drop out.

Saganich · Feb 24, 2025

megamanjan said:
i believe the MP and M7 film cavity is too small regardless of baseplate

Correct. The IXMOO cassettes do not fit in the Leica MP because the cavity doesn't accommodate the bump.

Don_ih · Feb 24, 2025

megamanjan said:
i always (eventually) get scratched film

Well, it's starting to sound like you need to reuse them fewer times or try to keep the light trap clean (people use a piece of tape to do that - I'm not sure how many times that will work, either).

pentaxuser · Feb 24, 2025

JerseyDoug said:
FWIW none of my bulk loaders (Watson 66, Watson 100, Alden 74) will work with the Shirley-Wellard. They can open and close the labyrinth but the S-W spins out of correct alignment when the crank is turned to load the film. The problem is that the part in the loader that keeps the cassette itself from turning does not extend far enough to contact the vestigial bit on the S-W (the shiny bit at the bottom of the S-W in my photo above). And I doubt that one of the Lloyd or similar bulk loaders would work because they have no way to press the end of the S-W. I would like to find a bulk loader that does work with a S-W so I don't have to load it by hand in the dark.

So I wonder which loader(s) will work or did work in the past? You haven't mentioned the Bobinquick or similar such loaders and I only do so as possibilities. Presumably some loaders once did otherwise would the SW have been viable? As you say: In complete darkness a bulk roll could be fed into the SW by hand and if so some users might have done this but this would seem to restrict the market to the extent that it calls into question whether such a complex piece of equipment as a SW cassette could ever have been made at a price and in a quantity that made its production viable

pentaxuser

Looking for conclusive answer to the question: Will any Shirley Wellard 35mm reusable cassette work in my Leica MP?

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