Looking for advice on large format

John cox · Mar 12, 2012

I've decided I'm willing to take the plunge and take up Large format. I've browsed KEH looking at different systems but I don't really know what I need. I don't want to develop 4x5 sheet film (I've spent a lot of time doing this with pin hole cameras and hated it) but I would happily develop 6x9 roll film (I have a freezer full of TMY too ). I've also heard that if I was to get something like a speed graphic I could do this on a couple hundred dollars which makes it very appealing to me. I'd also prefer something that I could eventually put a digital back on as I've seen older backs going for almost nothing compared to what they sold for initially.What components would I need -bare bones- to start taking pictures with roll film? Also is there an inexpensive ($100-$300) setup that I can put a MF back on (even a Mamiya press/RB/RZ film back would be great so that I could swap films)? I've just found this site, but are there any other great on-line resources for large format.
Thanks,
John

johnielvis · Mar 12, 2012

OH....so you sound like you really don't want LF, but rather a camera with swappable backs that you can put 120 or digital on.....

yeah--get the crown or a speed with a graflock on it--then get a rollfilm "23" back and I think you can find adapters to put digital backs on a standard graflock--there it is.

Dan Fromm · Mar 12, 2012

John, I shoot 2x3 on (mainly) 2x3 Graphics. I like 'em and they're well-suited to most of what I want to do. To get an idea of what I've done with my Graphics, see http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf

I like them but my little Graphics aren't real view cameras and they may not do what you'll learn or now think you need. The same is true of 4x5 Graphics, they're as limited as 2x3s, just larger and heavier.

No matter what you start out with, unless you're very lucky you'll decide it is wrong for you after you've used it for a while. This is normal, happens to nearly everyone who takes up LF.

I think that these days the best way to get into 2x3 is to get a 2x3 Graphic with a Graflok back and go shoot. 2x3 Busch Pressmen usually cost less but have spring backs, which makes using a roll holder difficult. 2x3 Linhof and Horseman cameras are good but more expensive.

But if you want to be able to use movements and don't want to give up the opportunity to use 4x5 your best bet is something like a 4x5 Cambo with an international back (another way of spelling Graflok back) and a 2x3 roll holder that fits a 4x5 back. I mentioned Cambo in part because I have a 2x3 and am familiar with the line; I haven't followed prices closely but understand that Sinars can be as inexpensive and good.

There are 2x3 (sold as 6x9) roll holders for 4x5 cameras that can be used with cameras that have spring or bail (modern spring) backs. Cambo/Calumet, for example. I use Adapt-A-Roll 620 holders, which also slip in like sheet film holders but they're getting hard to find.

The book on digital backs for LFish cameras is that they require very precise cameras. Geared movements, standards that can't rock, ... This isn't Graphics. It also isn't older generations of view cameras like my little Cambo. Used modern view cameras that are suitable for use with digital backs are scarce and very expensive. So are used digital backs, which is one of the many reasons why I haven't got one to find out how big a mistake attaching one to a 2x3 Graphic or Cambo SC is.

pawlowski6132 · Mar 12, 2012

So....you really don't want to shoot LF. 6x9 is not large format. It's medium format. Why bother sticking a 6x9 back on a Graphic camera with hardly any movements? Why not just get a MF camera????

ROL · Mar 12, 2012

Yeah, I'm going to pile on here as well. IMO, there's not much point in getting into LF if you don't want to develop sheet film. I shoot all formats. MF is hands down my favorite for a number of reasons. If you're not specifically looking for movements (tiltshift), and you want to use roll film anyway, there are many MF solutions available to you.

If you are still thinking LF and don't get the info you need here, try posting over on LFPF.

E. von Hoegh · Mar 12, 2012

If you dislike developing 4x5 sheets, perhaps you should try 5x7 or 8x10.

2 1/4 x 3 1/4 is not LF. The primary reasons for using LF cameras are 1)the corrective movements and 2)the large piece of film.

keithwms · Mar 12, 2012

Look at the Horseman VH / VH-R, / 985 with a 6x9 back, sheet back, or use the RB backs on it.

removed account4 · Mar 12, 2012

John cox said:
I've decided I'm willing to take the plunge and take up Large format. I've browsed KEH looking at different systems but I don't really know what I need. I don't want to develop 4x5 sheet film (I've spent a lot of time doing this with pin hole cameras and hated it) but I would happily develop 6x9 roll film (I have a freezer full of TMY too ). I've also heard that if I was to get something like a speed graphic I could do this on a couple hundred dollars which makes it very appealing to me. I'd also prefer something that I could eventually put a digital back on as I've seen older backs going for almost nothing compared to what they sold for initially.What components would I need -bare bones- to start taking pictures with roll film? Also is there an inexpensive ($100-$300) setup that I can put a MF back on (even a Mamiya press/RB/RZ film back would be great so that I could swap films)? I've just found this site, but are there any other great on-line resources for large format.
Thanks,
John

look for a pacemaker speed graphic. it will allow you to use anything you can think of as a camera lens ( shutter in the camera )
and it will allow you to use a roll film and electronic adapter as long as you get one with a graflok back.

sounds like fun !

pawlowski6132 said:
So....you really don't want to shoot LF. 6x9 is not large format. It's medium format. Why bother sticking a 6x9 back on a Graphic camera with hardly any movements? Why not just get a MF camera????

hi pawlowski6132

i don't know the OP but i can say why i would want to get a LF camera with little or no movements
and stick a roll film back on it. developing sheet film is a pain .. it doesn't matter if you process it in hangers
or in trays, or have to load it into a tank, it is a pain ... BUT
using a LF camera with a roll film back allows for the use of cheap and plentiful
lenses that are a pain to afix to a normal MF camera.
a lf camera like a speed graphic allows for junk, barrel, magnifying glasses, telescope eyepieces,
bad lenses harvested off of junque folders, brownies, clippers and virtually anything else to be used as a camera lens
because there is a shutter in the body of the camera.
i don't know anything about cheap leaf backs but if they are cheap it might be fun to play with, even if
focus is off ... sounds like fun though ...

and once he is done with his freezer full of roll film, maybe he will want to shoot sheet film, or paper negatives,
or wet plate or just sell the camera and make his money back ...

john

John cox · Mar 12, 2012

I would actually like movements, that's why I'm looking at large format. Do Press cameras not have rise, tilt, and shift available? For the record the attraction to that camera is the price not the movements. I would also like to use a loupe to focus. Sounds like the graphic camera may not be for me. What would I need if I wanted to focus with a loupe and have decent movements, while still using a 2x3 or Mamiya back.

E. von Hoegh · Mar 12, 2012

You can get roll backs from 6cm x 4.5cm up to 6cmx12cm that will attach to any 4x5 camera with a Graflok back.

But these are still medium format. Large format begins with 4x5.

keithwms · Mar 12, 2012

John cox said:
I would actually like movements, that's why I'm looking at large format.

The Horseman cameras that I mentioned have all the standard movements. The comparable Linhofs are better overall, but also much more expensive.

Dan Fromm · Mar 12, 2012

John cox said:
I would actually like movements, that's why I'm looking at large format. Do Press cameras not have rise, tilt, and shift available? For the record the attraction to that camera is the price not the movements. I would also like to use a loupe to focus. Sounds like the graphic camera may not be for me. What would I need if I wanted to focus with a loupe and have decent movements, while still using a 2x3 or Mamiya back.

Enthusiasts claim that press cameras have rise, tilt and shift. I'm a user, and the only movement my little 2x3 Graphics have that I can count on using is front rise. 19 mm or so. Backwards base tilt is always available, generally useless. Frontward base tilt is available when the bed is dropped and the front standard is on the bed, but is rarely usable; using it requires a narrow range of focal lengths and focused distances. There's a little shift that can be used only when the front standard is in front of the bed struts. In short, 19 mm of front rise, everything else is fantasy.

Of course a press camera can be focusing using the ground glass and the naked eye or the naked eye aided by a loupe. That's how I focus mine.

If you'd done your homework you'd know that some, not all, Mamiya RB roll holders can be used on other cameras with Graflok backs. You'd also know that they all shoot 6x7, which ain't 2x3. And you'd know that Mamiya press backs can be attached only to Mamiya Press cameras.

If you must have movements and 2x3, buy a 4x5 monorail view camera with an International back, a 2x3 roll holder that can be attached to it, and go shoot.

Sirius Glass · Mar 13, 2012

A 4"x5" camera makes a lousy MF roll camera.

If you do not want to process film, you do not want a LF camera.

If you need the movements, get a Hasselblad FlexBody or Hasselblad ArcBody.

removed account4 · Mar 13, 2012

i don't know about that sirius

i have been using my graflex slr as a 6x9 camera for 7 or 8years
and every time i get a "real" mf camera i tend not to use it ...
because the slr is a better camera ...

Sirius Glass · Mar 13, 2012

Yes, the OP mentions Graphics, not Graflexes. If the OP wants movements, most Graflexes do not have the rise movement.

mopar_guy · Mar 13, 2012

E. von Hoegh said:
You can get roll backs from 6cm x 4.5cm up to 6cmx12cm that will attach to any 4x5 camera with a Graflok back.

But these are still medium format. Large format begins with 4x5.

So my 3-1/4x4-1/4 Speed Graphic is not large format?

removed account4 · Mar 13, 2012

Sirius Glass said:
Yes, the OP mentions Graphics, not Graflexes. If the OP wants movements, most Graflexes do not have the rise movement.

but i was referring to what you said that a 4x5 camera was a lousy choice for shooting roll film.
my graflex slr is bigger, bulkier different to use, less movements and doesn't have a graflok back ..
people have told me for years it is also a lousy choice for shooting roll film, but it is still the camera i turn to for shooting roll film
( and i have a rollei )

you also said that if someone doesn't want to process sheet film, they don't want a large format camera ...
i would rather process roll film, so i use a roll back ...

large format camera ( with or without movements ) is a great choice for shooting roll film, and 35mm film if happen to have
a recommar back ...

keithwms · Mar 13, 2012

Trust me you're gonna like the Horsemans or Linhofs The mini-view cameras are lots of fun.

P.S. Sorry, the linhofs are way out of your stated price range and the Horseman VH probably goes for ~$500 or so.

dagist · Mar 13, 2012

John,

If size is not a problem and you are not concerned about handheld shooting, then I would highly recommend getting a 4x5 Sinar F or F2. It is the most versatile system ever conceived, super well made, and there is a plethora of used equipment available. 20 years ago you'd have to pay $900.00 for a used F or F2, but because the supply is higher than the demand these days, you can now get the same camera in the $400.00 range (a bargain compared to what it cost new) if you patiently watch eBay.

All of Sinar's parts are interchangeable and you can easily upgrade the same camera to a 5x7 or 8x10 without having to buy a whole new camera.

Cheers,
Rob McElroy
Buffalo, NY

E. von Hoegh · Mar 14, 2012

mopar_guy said:
So my 3-1/4x4-1/4 Speed Graphic is not large format?

Is it smaller than 4x5??

keithwms · Mar 14, 2012

LOL

...my format is larger than yours...

Don't fuss over definitions. You can't mat, frame, and sell a definition; nor will it bring you artistic fulfillment.

mopar_guy · Mar 14, 2012

E. von Hoegh said:
Is it smaller than 4x5??

Yes, by 3/4 inch on each side. It is also one inch larger than 2-1/4x3-1/4(medium format). So Quarter Plate (3-1/4x4-1/4) is too small to be Large Format and too big to be Medium Format, what exactly is it?

removed account4 · Mar 14, 2012

mopar_guy said:
Yes, by 3/4 inch on each side. It is also one inch larger than 2-1/4x3-1/4(medium format). So Quarter Plate (3-1/4x4-1/4) is too small to be Large Format and too big to be Medium Format, what exactly is it?

its large format
or quarter plate .... i wouldn't really worry about it.
hard core large format people will insist that LARGE FORMAT has to be 20 square inches
but probably somewhere in the early 1900s it included quarter plate ...
just keep enjoying yourself and don't let people get you down ..

have fun!
john

ps they say my 3.5x5 ( post card format ) isn't larger format either i really don't care

Light Guru · Mar 15, 2012

What exactly is it that you don't like about developing large format film? I'm guessing the only method you have tried is tray developing. There are other methods of developing large format film that can be done without being in complete darkness. I use a unicolor drum and rotary base. I lode the exposed film into the drum in a changing tent and the rest is all done in a regular lit room.

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k_jupiter · Mar 15, 2012

Light Guru said:
What exactly is it that you don't like about developing large format film? I'm guessing the only method you have tried is tray developing. There are other methods of developing large format film that can be done without being in complete darkness. I use a unicolor drum and rotary base. I lode the exposed film into the drum in a changing tent and the rest is all done in a regular lit room.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I guess there are people that won't open up to new ways of development. I have processed everything from 2.25x3.25 to 8x10 in tubes on rollers. And no, I don't like processing in trays either, and the hell with people who put definitions on LF that exclude my baby Speed or my 3x4 Graphics SLR. AFAIAC all sheet film is LF.

tim in san jose

Looking for advice on large format

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