Looking for a slow film

djkloss · Oct 7, 2006

Tech Pan at EI 8 or 12

Another gem bites the dust

Woolliscroft · Oct 8, 2006

djkloss said:
Tech Pan at EI 8 or 12

Another gem bites the dust

I so agree. A wonderful film. I still have a few rolls of 120 in the freezer.

David.

redrockcoulee · Oct 8, 2006

Any suggestions for a developer for Techical Pan other than Technical developer? I have only used the dedicated developer but in addition to the 20 rolls of 35mm I still had I was given 16 rolls of 120 which I have just finished, 150 sheets of 4X5 and 2 150 feet of 35mm plus some developer but just about out of developer.
With shooting MF and LF nowadays not sure how many decades it will take to shoot up 300 feet of 35mm

Woolliscroft · Oct 8, 2006

redrockcoulee said:
Any suggestions for a developer for Techical Pan other than Technical developer? I have only used the dedicated developer but in addition to the 20 rolls of 35mm I still had I was given 16 rolls of 120 which I have just finished, 150 sheets of 4X5 and 2 150 feet of 35mm plus some developer but just about out of developer.
With shooting MF and LF nowadays not sure how many decades it will take to shoot up 300 feet of 35mm

I think you can still get Technidol, but if not I'd also be interested in an answer to this as I have more film than dev left.

David.

Alan Johnson · Oct 8, 2006

H&W Control would probably work OK; see the formulary here:
www.frugalphotographer.com
I have developed both microfilms Copex Rapid EI 25 and Maco Ort 25c EI 25 in this 14min 68F. Likely other proprietary microfim developers may also work.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 8, 2006

Both the Efke 25 and Fuji 100 are really fine grained films. I have seen some extremely creamy and smooth negatives from both films in Xtol developer. I don't use much of the Efke anymore, and the Fuji I have very little experience with, but some 16x20 prints from both films were possible in the 35mm format. Is there grain? Yes! But not as much as you'd expect. An 8x10 looks almost grain free if you got the whole developing and printing chain just right. Medium format will help.
As a comparison, i use almost exclusively Tri-X and FP4 film. I develop in PyrocatHD and print square negs from my Rolleiflex camera up to about 10" square, and there is so little grain I have to try hard to find it. You should be able to get virtually grain free prints with the D76 developer (which is not by any means a fine grain developer by the way).

- Thom

djkloss · Oct 8, 2006

redrockcoulee said:
Any suggestions for a developer for Techical Pan other than Technical developer? I have only used the dedicated developer but in addition to the 20 rolls of 35mm I still had I was given 16 rolls of 120 which I have just finished, 150 sheets of 4X5 and 2 150 feet of 35mm plus some developer but just about out of developer.
With shooting MF and LF nowadays not sure how many decades it will take to shoot up 300 feet of 35mm

http://www.photoformulary.com/Deskt...tabindex=2&categoryid=31&selection=0&langId=0

It's a bit long for a hyper link, but Photoformulary.com has some developer they claim is good for tech pan. I haven't used it, but it's a start. I have two bulk rolls in my freezer and enough developer to go with, but I fear the film will out last the developer. I like it a lot with night photography. Try doing a search on Tech Pan in Flickr.

Cheers -
Dorothy

Lee L · Oct 8, 2006

redrockcoulee said:
Any suggestions for a developer for Techical Pan other than Technical developer?

I forget where I found it, but the formula for TD-3 was posted somewhere on the 'net:

TD-3
Distilled water 750 ml
Sodium sulfite 1 g
Pyrocatechin 0.25 g
Sodium carbonate (anhydrous) 15 g
Distilled water to make 1 liter

unblinkingeye has some recommendations for developers and times, including TD-3:
http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Times/TechPan/techpan.html

Haven't used this myself, but am considering it for the new Adox document film.

You should also check this thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I posted there on recommendations for TP in Rodinal 1:300 that came from a friend.

Lee

Edit: Found the location of the TD-3 formula on a page of staining developers:
http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Stain/stain.html

htmlguru4242 · Oct 8, 2006

I HIGHLY reccomend Efke KB25; its an excellent film. It is very slow, so you're going to want to sue a tripod, but I agree that its almost grainless.

Its almost at the point where you'll have trouble focusing on the grain at anything smaller that 8x10.

Be warned though, the emulsion on the film is soft (physically), so be careful or use a hardening fixer.

haziz · Oct 8, 2006

reub2000 said:
Today I was printing some Ilford Delta 100 on 8x10 paper at school, and thought it looked a bit grainy. I want something slower. What's a good film that will produce a smooth and grainless look? ASA doesn't really matter as I will be using this on a tripod for static subjects.

I would actually stick with the Delta 100 specially if you are familiar with it. D76 (1:1 or stock) as the developer is fine. Acros and Tmax 100 may be marginally finer grained but Delta 100 itself is very fine grained indeed. I have no experience wih Efke 25 but the Efke PL 100 is exceptionally grainy. It is the only film where I have got visible grain printing 11x14 from 4x5 (printed full frame). Efke 100 is definitedly grainier than HP5+ or Tri-X (TXP) 320, admittedly I did develop it in Rodinal 1:50 which did not help the grain. It's tonality is good however though it's emulsion is incredibly soft.

So to get back to your orginal question stick to the Delta 100. It is in fact one of the finest grain films currently available.

Sincerely,

Hany.

P C Headland · Oct 9, 2006

haziz said:
.... I have no experience wih Efke 25 but the Efke PL 100 is exceptionally grainy. It is the only film where I have got visible grain printing 11x14 from 4x5 (printed full frame). Efke 100 is definitedly grainier than HP5+ or Tri-X (TXP) 320, admittedly I did develop it in Rodinal 1:50 which did not help the grain. It's tonality is good however though it's emulsion is incredibly soft.....

Hany.

I've not had problems with grain on Efke 100, at least in 6x6/6x9. I always develop it in Rodinal 1+100. Certainly comparable to FP4+ at least, grainwise.

m_liddell · Oct 9, 2006

redrockcoulee said:
Any suggestions for a developer for Techical Pan other than Technical developer?

TechXactol?

http://www.monochromephotography.com/techxactol.htm

noseoil · Oct 9, 2006

Here's a recent post to the gallery. Lousy scan (as usual), but this is what I'm getting with Efke 25 & PMK. Its an 8x10 print, cropped from a 6x6 negative. There is no grain and had to use a screen for printing, due to the sharpness of the image. Didn't want all the wrinkles to show up too much.

The bike shot in my gallery's first page is done with Efke 25 as well. Chrome & the 25 is a wonderful combination. tim

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

gchpaco · Oct 9, 2006

It's certainly possible to make Delta 100 grainy for an 8x enlargement, but it takes some doing, and you're really unlikely to get anything finer grained; TMX and ACROS are both very fine grained but not significantly moreso than Delta 100 is. I'm inclined to suspect your processing regimen.

srs5694 · Oct 9, 2006

haziz said:
I have no experience wih Efke 25 but the Efke PL 100 is exceptionally grainy. It is the only film where I have got visible grain printing 11x14 from 4x5 (printed full frame). Efke 100 is definitedly grainier than HP5+ or Tri-X (TXP) 320, admittedly I did develop it in Rodinal 1:50 which did not help the grain. It's tonality is good however though it's emulsion is incredibly soft.

I've only shot one roll of Efke 100, in 35mm. It was definitely much grainier than any other ISO 100 film I've shot. I processed mine in D-76, IIRC. I wouldn't say it was grainier than conventional-grain ISO 400 films like HP5+ (also developed in D-76, to keep things as comparable as possible), but it was in the same general ballpark. The Efke's grain was crisper than most, which might tend to make it more noticeable.

Efke KB25, OTOH, is a very fine-grained film. I'm not sure it's any finer-grained than T-Max 100, but it's roughly comparable, in my experience. I've only shot a couple of rolls of Efke KB50, but my experience suggests that there's a big jump in graininess from KB25 to KB50, then a smaller jump from KB50 to KB100.

All of this is in 35mm. It's possible the patterns are different in other formats, and certainly the grain would be less noticeable in an enlargement of a fixed final size in larger formats.

reub2000 · Oct 11, 2006

If I pull the Delta 100 by a stop will it have less grain?

Efke KB25, OTOH, is a very fine-grained film. I'm not sure it's any finer-grained than T-Max 100, but it's roughly comparable, in my experience

Does a film 2 stops slower really have comparable grain to a 100asa film?

Tom Hoskinson · Oct 11, 2006

reub2000 said:
If I pull the Delta 100 by a stop will it have less grain?

Does a film 2 stops slower really have comparable grain to a 100asa film?

I would say No to both your questions.

The grain size and other grain characteristics are designed into the film by the film manufacturer.

Efke 25 is an old technology single emulsion layer film that uses conventional (1940's-1950's) style silver grains.

Delta 100 and TMax-100 are modern technolgy films that use advanced silver grain designs .

Jadedoto · Oct 11, 2006

I remember using my Rokkor lenses on my Minolta, I was able to make virtually grainless enlargements up to about 8x10 and some to 11x14 from APX100 souped in Ilfosol-S.

borgida · Oct 11, 2006

I have just done some film testing over the last two days. I am also looking for a film with tight grain and smooth gradation. Here is what I found out:

1. Efke 25 (tested in 4x5 sheets) is not the same Efke 25 of a year ago. Not sure what happened but the film is not the same. Tested in PMK Pyro.

2. Ilford Pan F (tested in 120 rolls) has the tightest grain (so far) with a very smooth gradation in PMK Pyro. I have also tested Ilford Pan F in Microphen and TFX2 and Pyro wins with grain tightness.

3. I tested Ilford FP4+ (in 4x5 sheets) in PMK Pyro, Microphen, and TFX2. I found the FP4+ in 4x5 to have large grain in all three developers (Pyro had the tightest grain.

My analysis, thus far, shows that Pan F in 120 size has tighter grain than FP4 in 4x5 film. For output, I am drum scanning on a Howtek 4500 and printing on a custom diluted hextone black and white inkset printer (epson 7600).

I think you are going to have to compromise with what is more important. Gradation or Grain. If you want gradation, you need a traditional film like Pan F or FP4 (I think the Pan F si probably the best out there right now as the FP4 looks mushy because of large grain clumping). If you want tight grain and are willing to give up gradation, then you can use tabular grain films like Delta, TMAX, and Acros. Out of all three, the Acros film is the best in the testing I have done.

Best Regards,
Ross Borgida

reub2000 · Oct 12, 2006

Between the Pan F Plus and Efke 25, what are the main diffrences?

JBrunner · Oct 12, 2006

reub2000 said:
I exposed the roll at stock speed, and then processed it in D-76. 9 minutes @ 68F. I'm just following the instructions of my photography teacher.

Try rating it at 64.

reub2000 · Oct 12, 2006

JBrunner said:
Try rating it at 64.

What about highlights like the sky?

borgida · Oct 12, 2006

Pan F vs Efke 25

reub2000 said:
Between the Pan F Plus and Efke 25, what are the main diffrences?

Grain is tigher in Pan F than in Efke 25. Also, Pan F seems richer. If I were you, I would test some of the films and developer combinations to come up with what works best for you.

Stephanie Brim · Oct 13, 2006

I agree with testing. We could all tell you our preferences all day long, but only you can decide what it is that you want.

Personally, I like grain. I shoot Pan-F at 80 and develop in Diafine. Most people hate it but I find it pleasing. Then again, I also shoot TMAX 100 at 100 for development in Rodinal and I find that I get pleasing grain from that as well. With black and white film, it isn't so much a question of grain or no grain...it's a question of how pleasing that grain is.

reub2000 · Oct 13, 2006

I agree with testing. We could all tell you our preferences all day long, but only you can decide what it is that you want.

True. But it doesn't hurt to pick some brains to narrow down the selection.

Personally, I like grain. I shoot Pan-F at 80 and develop in Diafine. Most people hate it but I find it pleasing. Then again, I also shoot TMAX 100 at 100 for development in Rodinal and I find that I get pleasing grain from that as well. With black and white film, it isn't so much a question of grain or no grain...it's a question of how pleasing that grain is.

To me, the grain quality of Tri-X is great. It works for some shots, but not all.

Looking for a slow film

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