Looking for a medium format camera

I'm new to this forum and it's good to see a dedicated group of people for analog photography.
Looking for a recommendation for used medium format camera sets. I've heard Mamiya, Bronica, Contax brands and their various models. Any links / articles would be appreciated!

Rolleiflex is the best
Hasselblad is second best
Mamiya is third best
Bronica is fourth best
After that is Fuji
;-)
Dennis

Rolleis are very nice. Own one myself. But they are only single lens. If you want something where you can switch between wide-normal-tele you must look elsewhere. Bronica is popular and not too expensive.

r

Mats

Welcome!

Are you a complete newbie regarding medium format?
Anyway, it is nice to ask just for articles instead of everyone´s opinion, as this would ultimately start ehm... some kind of war ;-)

http://www.dannyburk.com/contax_645.htm
http://www.outbackcoyote.com/outphoto_review_Contax_645.htm
http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?AsahiPentax67.html~mainFrame
http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?MamiyaRB67.html~mainFrame
http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Bronica_S2

Just a few to start with.

Maybe it would help if you tell us more about your preferences. Do you want something pure mechanical or everything done by electronics? Do you like square or rectangular pictures more? How important are weight and size to you? How much do you want to spend?

Best regards, Benjamin

Oh, not to forget: www.SL66.com

OH jeez, I forgot Pentax 67. It goes between Mamiya and Bronica..

dpurdy said:

Rolleiflex is the best
Hasselblad is second best
Mamiya is third best
Bronica is fourth best
After that is Fuji
;-)
Dennis

Click to expand...

Complete nonsense, in my opinion!

There is no way to rank the systems like this. One photographer will say it's all about lp/mm; another will say, no! it's all about bokeh; another will say it's bang for the buck; another will say it's all about form factor; another will say it's about backward or forward compatibility; some will say RFs are the ticket, others will say SLRs, others will say view cameras... etc. ad nauseum.

This kind of ranking is how completely pointless, cyclical arguments are started, and not a helpful way to answer someone just coming to APUG with a wide open question.

I went through almost all of the MF systems, one by one, it took amost a year. And eventually I settled on several that were right for me.... each with different plusses and minuses. That's what you have to do. There are no shortcuts to find what is best for you. (As opposed to what is best for somebody else's ego)

keithwms said:

Complete nonsense, in my opinion!

There is no way to rank the systems like this. One photographer will say it's all about lp/mm; another will say, no! it's all about bokeh; another will say it's bang for the buck; another will say it's all about form factor; another will say it's about backward or forward compatibility; some will say RFs are the ticket, others will say SLRs, others will say view cameras... etc. ad nauseum.

This kind of ranking is how completely pointless, cyclical arguments are started, and not a helpful way to answer someone just coming to APUG with a wide open question.

I went through almost all of the MF systems, one by one, it took amost a year. And eventually I settled on several that were right for me.... each with different plusses and minuses. That's what you have to do. There are no shortcuts to find what is best for you. (As opposed to what is best for somebody else's ego)

Click to expand...

Well you did note my smiley face? I posed it as humor. But I think there is a bit of truth in that if you made a study of all the medium format cameras being used by APUG members it would come out pretty close to that. Seems nearly everyone owns a Rolleiflex or Rolleicord, and it seems that Hasselblad is beyond reproach except that it is hard to get in really cheap. After that there are so many Mamiya users with the TLRs and the 6 and the 7 and the 645. And the Pentax systems both 6x7 and 645 have tons of users as well as Bronica which is surprisingly good for being inexpensive. Then doesn't everyone wish they had a Fuji range finder in the closet for fun?

Dennis
sorry to upset you

Thanks everyone! I'm stoked to hear so many advices within an hour I have been shooting digital for few years. My focus is portrait and PJ/street type of work. Lately I got a 35mm film body to work with my Canon lens collection. I love it very much because I don't need to care about white balance anymore Seriously I love the dynamic range, grain and imperfection of film. So I would like to get a medium format set to do some portrait work.

Regarding all mechanical or not. I don't really care. As long as I can get spare parts from ebay or so. I think 80mm lens on a MF will work for me for most of the time.

Kelvin

Here's a good thread.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Specifically, this EXCELLENT post!
(Some useful links...)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Kevin, if you happen to be anywhere neat Tucson, I could show you my Bronica SQ kit.

dpurdy said:

Well you did note my smiley face? I posed it as humor.
...
Dennis
sorry to upset you

Click to expand...

I did indeed see the smiley face, but... I could say: "Ilford b&w film is best, then Fuji, then Kodak... " etc. and it still is an annoying thing to read!

Don't get me wrong: I think it's wonderful when experienced people present substantiated opinions. But I also think it's awful when somebody's first post is greeted with a brand ranking. The whole reason why analogue medium format is still king, in my opinion, is the tremendous variety of equipment out there.

I am not humourless, these rankings are simply my #1 pet peeve.

P.S. And the O.P. will find that there are plenty of nice folks at APUG like Greg who will be happy to arrange a hands-on demo.

kelvinleung said:

I think 80mm lens on a MF will work for me for most of the time.

Kelvin

Click to expand...

What's your budget?

I can think of one camera that will get you in the game for a ~$300 bucks... e.g. a mamiya m645 with 80/1.9 lens. I can think of another totally different system that will cost ~50x as much but has certain other advantages. Budget will narrow things down considerably!

And will you eventually want digital compatibility on this body?

I agree with Keithwms - a pecking order of mf cameras is simply unhelpful and misleading. The "best camera" for you is the camera that suits your needs most closely. And it may not even be on that list...

Unlike 35mm cameras - where the range of options is more or less limited to rangefinder vs slr - medium format cameras come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, from 6x45 Slr's to 6x9 rangefinders. They all have their different pro's and con's and it can happen that, for some purposes, a plastic Holga is better than a Rollieflex.

APUG is a fantastic resource for inexperienced photographers and there's lots of people here willing to give good advice. Unfortunately, the first advice you got wasn't so good. Perhaps, if you were to explain a little more about the kind of things you'd like to shoot, your preferred style of shooting and your budget, then I'm sure that the kind people here will point you in the right direction...

Regards
Jerry

Pardon me, new responses whilst I was writing...

Street and portraiture? Difficult combination : if budget is no object, I'd look at Mamiya 6's and 7's. A cheaper (older) option would be Mamiya Press/Universal/Super23.

Regards
Jerry

Maimya RB67 is a good choice.

Jeff

I'd longed for a Hasselblad for a long time and finally got one about five years ago on eBay (it helped to be the sole bidder).

There is one thing of which I'm aware regarding Hasselblad cameras that may sway someone to choose one (I cannot comment to Mamiya account unfamiliarity with same): service.

Not long after I got my Hassy, a 500C/M with 80mm c T* lens and 16-exposure back, I somehow managed to break parts in both the lens and body. Now what?

I knew their operations were here in New Jersey, so I contacted them and arranged for repair. I sent off the lens, body and a second back (a 12-exposure model) for repair and overhaul, and I got back a camera that performed like the day it came off the assembly line. All told, between acquisition and repair, I spent about $1,400 or so, and came out ahead, when compared to buying a 501CM kit!

My point is, some of the MF camera manufacturers have either left the market or gone out of business entirely, so future repair may be a point for someone to consider.

Regards,

Dieter Zakas
Service, NJ

I love my Twin Lens Reflex, which is a yashica mat 124g (none of the big brand names above) it's a beautiful camera that I have never had a single problem with.
When talking to most of my photography teachers they recommend a Mamiya for any camera.. Im not sure it is more user friendly or why they all like Mamiya's but I hope this helps!

Mamiya 645 is a great setup.

Slixtiesix said:

Welcome!

Are you a complete newbie regarding medium format?
Anyway, it is nice to ask just for articles instead of everyone´s opinion, as this would ultimately start ehm... some kind of war ;-)

http://www.dannyburk.com/contax_645.htm
http://www.outbackcoyote.com/outphoto_review_Contax_645.htm
http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?AsahiPentax67.html~mainFrame
http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?MamiyaRB67.html~mainFrame
http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Bronica_S2

Just a few to start with.

Maybe it would help if you tell us more about your preferences. Do you want something pure mechanical or everything done by electronics? Do you like square or rectangular pictures more? How important are weight and size to you? How much do you want to spend?

Best regards, Benjamin

Oh, not to forget: www.SL66.com

Click to expand...

Karen Nakamura's writeup (on her photoethnography.com site) on the Pentax 6x7 started me in the direction of wanting one. It's a beast, but enjoyable to use if you have the stamina, and there are plenty of lenses and accessories still available for it.

Welcome!

You may get one, then another, then another! Each has features. All of them mentioned so far are good. It's up to you though. One size doesn't fit all. You need to determine the size you want to start out with.

I wouldn't worry too much about brand. If you're coming from 35 mm or digital, an image from any medium format camera (Holgas and the like excluded) will blow the doors off what you're accustomed to getting from smaller cameras.

You want small, light, and relatively inexpensive? A moderately good quality TLR will get you in for very little. Need something with interchangeable lenses? Pentax or Mamiya 645's are really nice, and you don't need to crop very much to fit standard print sizes. The list goes on, but you get idea. Think about your budget and how you plan to use the camera. Go visit Karen Nakamura's site. She's got lots of very good information there. Go to KEH.com and see what's available and their price ranges in the cameras that interest you.

What you'll find is that once you get to a certain price point, there are no truly bad cameras. Once you get past a certain price point, you are in the realm of diminishing returns where a lot more money doesn't buy a whole lot more camera.

It really depends on what you want to shoot, how much gear you want to carry, and the snob factor...

I've owned or used probably 50 different medium format cameras over the last 20 years (it helps to work in the photo trade-I've worked in retail, as a photographer, and as a camera tech, plus I collect cameras) so I've had reasonable experience with various cameras.

The bottom line is that pretty much any medium format camera that is working well will give you good results...what I've found is that it comes down to is personal choice based on negative size, and the type of camera you get along with..

Some rough observations:

6x4.5 format - is a great entry to mediium format - and are great for street shooting and portraits - I've used Mamiya, Bronica and Pentax SLR's - all are good, although for street shooting I would go for the Pentax because you have auto and manual exposure built in to the body, the built in winder isn't too noisy, and the lenses are super sharp (not to mention cheap). I've also used the Fuji rangefinders - love the one with the 60mm lens, and the folding one is a great all around camera (although you really need to check for pinholes in the bellows - most I've seen have had them..)

6X6 - lots of choices - TLR's (Rolleiflex and Rolleicord, Yashica, Bueatyflex, Autocord) etc with fixed lenses are all quiet, reliable and sharp (so are the Seagull's if you find one that's been tweaked), and with the waist level finder you can focus discreetly (although I have to say some of the viewfinders can be a bit dim - you may need to get the camera serviced, and replace the focussing screen or mirror to get a brighter viewfinder). Mamiyaflex's are great - but heavy!

6x6 SLR's are great, but they are heavier, and not as quiet...Hasselblads are a great camera, but the lenses can be slow to focus as you have to move the focus ring through nearly 270 degrees to go from infinity to close focus - can be frustrating if you are trying to focus quickly...Although if you can pick up a old Kowa 6 (not the 66 with the interchangable back - the backs could be a bit of a pain) then I think you will love it - the results on par with a Hasselblad (I've shot both side by side), just be aware they do go off with a bit of a thump (just like a Mamiya RB/RZ or Bronica EC/S series..)

6x6 rangefinder - now we're talking....very under-rated by people (and I'm not just talking about the Mmaiya 6) - look for a Zeiss Super Ikonta (coupled rangefinder) or Zeiss Ikonta, or one of the Agfa Isolettes (easiest way to tell if they are any good is to get one with a 1-200 shutter - they always seemed to put a good lens on one with a full range of shutter speeds). I've also had great results form the Chinese Seagul 203 cameras, and also the Russian Iskra cameras.

Even though most of the Agfa's (and the Zeiss Ikonta's) don't have a coupled rangefinder, you soon learn to guess your distance accuratly, and I defy anyone to tell the difference between a photo from one of these and a Hasselblad in the final print..

6X7/6x9 - The Fuji rangefinders are great - quick to focus, and sharp lenses. Same for the Mamiya 7, and you get interchangable lenses..Mamiya press was a great camera too, but very heavy. If you can find one then the Graflex XLRF was a great camera - 6x7 rangefinder with interchangable lenses (although youwill be hard pressed to find accessory lenses) - super sharp lenses, and as they were made of magnesium (I think) VERY light....

You could also consider a folding camera - Zeiss Ikonta/Super Ikonta - they produced stunning results. My personal experience with the Russian Moskva hasn't been good - most had wobbly beds, or the rangefinders were out of adjustment (and not easy to fix)..Same goes for the Voigtlander Bessa II - great camera, but watch out for a loose/wobbly lens bed...however if they are tight then they are one of the nicest cameras ever made....

6x12 - why not, if you are into panoramas? I've used some of the scale focussing cameras fitted with 90mm large format lenses, and they are super sharp....I've not had much luck with Noblex's though....

I suppose the bottom line is that for a couple of hundred dollars you should be able to pick up a decent camera...remember it's a bit of a learing curve, and there are some cameras (no matter how good they are) that you just won't get along with.......

Have fun!

If you are just getting into medium format, a twin lens is probably the way to go. I got my Yashica A for under $20 and I love it. While it is not as highly desired as the D or the venerable 124G, it is in really good condition and produces great results on a budget.

dpurdy said:

Rolleiflex is the best
Hasselblad is second best
Mamiya is third best
Bronica is fourth best
After that is Fuji

Dennis

Click to expand...

Mamiya is the best
Hasselblad is second best
Rolleiflex is the third best
Bronica is fourth best
After that is Fuji

I've used the Mamiya M645 SLR and C330 TLR for quite some time. Excellent results. For ease of use, the M645 works best. The C330 takes a bit more headwork, especially if you do close-ups and have to deal with exposure factors and parallax, but they are both excellent cameras. I like the square format and the negs / chromes scan well in my cheap Epson V700.

RalphLambrecht said:

Mamiya is the best
Hasselblad is second best
Rolleiflex is the third best
Bronica is fourth best
After that is Fuji

Click to expand...

Aaaargh!!!! Ralph, how could you!

The closest thing I ever saw to a sensible ranking system was done by a site called camerareview (I don't see it online any more). Their ranking method wasn't perfect by any means, but there were hundreds of votes and people wrote comments, some quite informative. As I recall, the votes for these systems were all fairly clustered at the top, with some brands like alpa in there as well.