Looking for a medium format camera with bellows and manual settings

fabulousrice · Nov 18, 2021

I am trying to build fast lenses for medium format cameras, and I am looking for a body with bellows to use them on.

Basically, something similar to the GX680 series by Fuji, but which can be used without a battery (I don't think I would be able to use the GX680, since the lenses I build won't have pins). I like that it has bellows, tilt/shift/raise/drop/focussing knobs, but it's all electronic.

Is there such a medium format camera body out there?

dxqcanada · Nov 18, 2021

Horseman VH ??

grat · Nov 18, 2021

Yeah-- Horseman is probably the best bet. 970/980/985 are pretty good, although VH is the better model, and the VH-R has rotating back.

Century / Crown Graphic 2x3 wouldn't be a bad choice either, although it's lacking swing, and only has forward tilt.

yurihuta · Nov 18, 2021

fabulousrice said:
Basically, something similar to the GX680 series by Fuji, but which can be used without a battery -----

Is there such a medium format camera body out there?

How about the Mamiya RB67 - mechanical shutter with a bellows system.

Sirius Glass · Nov 18, 2021

Rollei 6000 series, an slr will meet all your needs.

JensH · Nov 18, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
Rollei 6000 series, an slr will meet all your needs.

No bellows here (except the macro bellows) and it will be hard to fit a custom fast lens in.
Rolleiflex SL66's got a bellow...

JensH · Nov 18, 2021

fabulousrice said:
I am trying to build fast lenses for medium format cameras, and I am looking for a body with bellows to use them on....

Hi,

just to understand: what lenses are your goal? How fast at what focal lengh?

Jens

wiltw · Nov 19, 2021

yurihuta said:
How about the Mamiya RB67 - mechanical shutter with a bellows system.

There is the challenge of the mechanical linkage to the in-lens shutter

Pieter12 · Nov 19, 2021

Rollei Xact2, Hasselblad FlexBody, I think there might be a Cambo and an Arca that would do as well.

Dan Daniel · Nov 19, 2021

grat said:
Yeah-- Horseman is probably the best bet. 970/980/985 are pretty good, although VH is the better model, and the VH-R has rotating back.

[The 'R' in VH-R is for rangefinder. Bot the VH and the VH-R have rotating backs.]

No idea if the OP needs short focal lengths, but the Horseman VH won't handle much shorter than around 65mm. The Crown or Century Graphic allows for focusing on the rear section of rails so can handle shorter focal lengths. But the movements are limited on those cameras.

Dan Fromm · Nov 19, 2021

fabulousrice said:
I am trying to build fast lenses for medium format cameras, and I am looking for a body with bellows to use them on.

Build? Do you mean construct or acquire?

Fast? How fast? And which focal lengths?

Thinking of fast, I have two fast, for medium format, normal lenses for 2x3 (6x9 in metric). 4 inch/2 TTH Anastigmat ex-Vinten F95 and 100/2.5 Uran-27. Both are in barrel, neither will go into a standard shutter. I use them on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic, which has a focal plane shutter. Both just make infinity mounted in front of the lens board.

I also have, or have had, other fastish, for medium format, lenses. 1.75 inch/2.8 Elcan and 6"/2.8 Elcan, both in barrel. Neither will go in a standard shutter. The 1.75er is the shortest lens that works on a 2x3 Speed Graphic, just covers 6x6. The 6"er is too fat to fit through a 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic's lens throat and its back focus is too short for it to make infinity when mounted in front of the lens board. Impractical.

EDIT

grat · Nov 19, 2021

Dan Daniel said:
[The 'R' in VH-R is for rangefinder. Bot the VH and the VH-R have rotating backs.]

Whoops. You are correct, it was late.

Bashful71 · Nov 19, 2021

Roll-film back on a 4x5 monorail camera?

abruzzi · Nov 19, 2021

Dan Fromm said:
Build? Do you mean construct or acquire?

Fast? How fast? And which focal lengths?

Thinking of fast, I have two fast, for medium format, normal lenses for 2x3 (6x9 in metric). 4 inch/2 TTH Anastigmat ex-Vinten F95 and 100/2.5 Uran-27. Both are in barrel, neither will go into a standard shutter. I use them on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic, which has a focal plane shutter. Both just make infinity mounted in front of the lens board.

I also have, or have had, other fastish, for medium format, lenses. 1.75 inch/2.8 Elcan and 6"/2.8 Elcan, both in barrel. Neither will go in a standard shutter. The 1.75er is the shortest lens that works on a 2x3 Speed Graphic, just covers 6x6. The 6"er is too fat to fit through a 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic's lens throat and its back focus is too short for it to make infinity when mounted in front of the lens board. Impractical.

Not to be personally abusive or anything nasty like that, but OP, I think you have too much dream, not enough realism.

you can get 105mm and 100mm Schneider Xenotars with f2.8 apertures that fit a normal shutter (I have the 105 in my baby Technika.). They work well on a 6x9 view camera,

to the OP, most of the cameras recommended, from the mini view cameras like the VH or the RB67, or the Hasselblad flex body all assume a shutter in the lens, which is why I’d think that going with the VH makes the most sense since it is setup to work with normal LF style shutters on flat lens boards. Most of the other options would require some hacking. But the shutter you choose will have a maximum opening that will put a hard limit on your max aperture, and the bigger shutters (Copal 3 for instance) will not mount on many small view cameras (my baby Technika certainly won’t mount it.) which may make a 4x5 with a roll holder more feasible.

fabulousrice · Nov 19, 2021

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
I got a 2x3 Graflex with a 23 back, will share some results once I get some!

@Dan Fromm: it’ll be around f=0.5 / 0.7 fast.
You are telling me your lenses’s names but not their speed, what are they?
I don’t mind removing/editing the front plate of a camera to get the result I want or push the lens further into the bellows to reduce flange.
Medium format has felt pretty limited for me so far since all MF lenses are very slow for my taste.
EDITED

Dan Fromm · Nov 19, 2021

abruzzi said:
you can get 105mm and 100mm Schneider Xenotars with f2.8 apertures that fit a normal shutter (I have the 105 in my baby Technika.).

Thanks for catching my failing memory. I also forgot f/2.8 Planars.

DREW WILEY · Nov 19, 2021

There are several general purpose plasmats in 105/5.6 to choose from - Fuji, Nikon, Schneider all made modern examples. For 6x9 in that focal length, I instead personally use a Nikkor 100/3.5, a superb modern multi-coated tessar.

Dan Fromm · Nov 19, 2021

fabulousrice said:
@Dan Fromm: it’ll be around f=0.5 / 0.7 fast.

You are telling me your lenses’s names but not their speed, what are they?
I don’t mind removing/editing the front plate of a camera to get the result I want or push the lens further into the bellows to reduce flange.
Medium format has felt pretty limited for me so far since all MF lenses are very slow for my taste.
EDITED

Hmm. There's a convention. Focal length/maximum relative aperture. 4 inch/2 TTH Anastigmat ex-Vinten F95 and 100/2.5 Uran-27. Got it?

Hmm again. f/0.5 is the largest relative aperture possible in air. The f/0.7 or so lenses floating around eBay and such venues are relay lenses from X-ray machines. They have low coverage and microscopic back focus. Not practical for general photography.

Which focal length(s) are you aiming for? I ask because fast lenses can be very fat. In which case, putting the lens in shutter can be impossible and mounting the lens on a 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic board with the rear cell behind the board is also impossible. The 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic lens throat is 48 mm square, and that can be very limiting.

Who will design your fast lens that covers 2x3?

You say you got a 2x3 "Graflex." Graflex is a brand and is also a type of camera, namely, an SLR. Did you get a press camera or an SLR?

Sirius Glass · Nov 19, 2021

The Mamiya C2xx or C3xx has interchangeable lenses and a great set of bellows for close up but not for tilt correction.

fabulousrice · Nov 22, 2021

Dan Fromm said:
Hmm. There's a convention. Focal length/maximum relative aperture. 4 inch/2 TTH Anastigmat ex-Vinten F95 and 100/2.5 Uran-27. Got it?

Hmm again. f/0.5 is the largest relative aperture possible in air. The f/0.7 or so lenses floating around eBay and such venues are relay lenses from X-ray machines. They have low coverage and microscopic back focus. Not practical for general photography.

Which focal length(s) are you aiming for? I ask because fast lenses can be very fat. In which case, putting the lens in shutter can be impossible and mounting the lens on a 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic board with the rear cell behind the board is also impossible. The 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic lens throat is 48 mm square, and that can be very limiting.

Who will design your fast lens that covers 2x3?

You say you got a 2x3 "Graflex." Graflex is a brand and is also a type of camera, namely, an SLR. Did you get a press camera or an SLR?

I am not in a position to fully understand the technical details you are listing. I am putting a very fast lens on a 2x3 Graflex press camera, with a 120 back to shoot medium format in a visual way that I find more satisfying than than current and past "commercial" options offer.
I actually don't know the specifications of the lens, it's not an xray lens but it's not a lens meant for photography either, the focal distance is about 1 inch and 3/4.

Dan Fromm · Nov 22, 2021

fabulousrice said:
I am not in a position to fully understand the technical details you are listing. I am putting a very fast lens on a 2x3 Graflex press camera, with a 120 back to shoot medium format in a visual way that I find more satisfying than than current and past "commercial" options offer.
I actually don't know the specifications of the lens, it's not an xray lens but it's not a lens meant for photography either, the focal distance is about 1 inch and 3/4.

Does your very fast lens have a name? If so, please tell us. If it doesn't have a name, please tell us focal length and maximum aperture.

When you say "focal distance" do you mean flange-to-film distance, back focus or focal length?

throneking · Dec 5, 2021

Horseman VH

fabulousrice · Feb 25, 2022

Is the flange distance smaller than the Graflex 2x3 on the Horseman VH?

Looking for a medium format camera with bellows and manual settings

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