Looking for a fast lens

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

I'm looking for a fast MF lens. Right now I'm chugging along at f/2.8 but I'm really drooling over some of those Leica Noctilux f/1.0 lenses. Is there anything comparable for MF? Ideally it would be with a rangefinder-style camera as opposed to a box-system (Hasselblad, RB/RZ, etc). I'd buy the camera to go with the lens.

I realize the caveats with regard to cost, DOF, quality, etc. This is for a very specific project.

I'd be thrilled with any links or recommendations. To quote A. Eldritch "Give me something fast"

2F/2F · Dec 21, 2009

Mamiya 645 80mm f/1.9 and Pentax 67 105mm f/2.4 are two that come to mind immediately. They are both for SLR cameras. There may be others, but I am not aware of them. I have used both lenses (and own the Mamiya), and IMO they are both outstanding.

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

The f/1.9 might be nice, I forgot about the 645 - I try to stay with 6x6 or larger but of course I'm going to have to compromise someplace in the equation.

Looking at my meter it seems that f/2.4 would be about half a stop faster than f/2.8. Would you say that's the case in the real world?

2F/2F · Dec 21, 2009

Bosaiya said:
Would you say that's the case in the real world?

To answer that in a practical sense, you'd have to know the maximum t stop of each lens, not the maximum f stop...however, as far as f stops go, yes, it is 1/2 stop faster, real world or fake world.

For instance, Canon has a newer 200mm f/2.0 IS lens. They used to have a 200mm f/1.8 lens in the days before IS existed. The numbers tell us that the old lens was 1/3-stop faster than the new lens. However, the optical design is different between the two of them, so the old lens is actually 2/3-stop faster. 1/3-f stop difference, 2/3-t stop difference.

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

2F/2F said:
To answer that, you'd have to know the maximum t stop of each lens, not the maximum f stop...however, as far as f stops go, yes, it is 1/2 stop faster, real world or fake world.

Great, thank you!

2F/2F · Dec 21, 2009

Worthy of note if you want the lens for aesthetic reasons as opposed to light gathering ability is that the two lenses will magnify differently, since they are made for different film formats. Be sure you take a look at what the depth of field will be for both of these lenses wide open. It may be remarkably close to identical, due to the higher magnification of the Pentax.

As for 6x6 vs. 6x4.5, the difference that will theoretically show up will only do so if you want to print square pictures, which will require cropping 6x4.5 to at least 4.5x4.5. If you keep magnification the same, however, 6x6 and 6x4.5 will show no differences in quality due to enlargement alone.

Also worthy of note is that the Mamiya 645 system is much cheaper than the Pentax 6x7 in almost every way. You can get into a body and that lens in great condition for probably under $400, with some extras. I would say that this is not possible with the Pentax option.

Worthy of yet another note is that the Mamiya 645 system is quite small and lightweight compared to the Pentax system.

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

I'm looking for low-light performance, the only aesthetic being "it's not as dark."

I don't really have anything against the 6x4.5 format, it just never really felt right to me. I print my 6x6 negatives as squares, I like the look. And of course the larger rectangular formats print nicely as 8x10s. I'm certainly not opposed to 6x4.5 (I own one already), I would just prefer something larger. And faster. And made out of solid gold. And less than $20. Delivered.

dentkimterry · Dec 21, 2009

A somewhat more expensive proposition would be the Hasselblad 110mm f2 lens. This lens is a stunning picture taker but is made for the 200 and 2000 series cameras only. Still something to consider.

Terry

2F/2F · Dec 21, 2009

Well, if you just want raw light gathering ability, little else matters, and small format trumps everything with commonly (and fairly cheaply) available f/1.2 and f/1.4 lenses for many camera systems.

...but in the world of medium format, the Mamiya 645 option is the best bang for the buck. It has the most speed for the cheapest price.

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

dentkimterry said:
A somewhat more expensive proposition would be the Hasselblad 110mm f2 lens. This lens is a stunning picture taker but is made for the 200 and 2000 series cameras only. Still something to consider.

Terry

The project is still in the planning stages but should be funded so that's definitely an option, thanks!

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

2F/2F said:
Well, if you just want raw light gathering ability, little else matters, and small format trumps everything with commonly (and fairly cheaply) available f/1.2 and f/1.4 lenses for many camera systems.

...but in the world of medium format, the Mamiya 645 option is the best bang for the buck. It has the most speed for the cheapest price.

Yes, I have a f/1.4 on small format, it's very nice! I'm just hoping to find something similar in a larger format.

Even large format would be nice, I'm running at f/2.9 on that as well. I read something on lfphoto.info about a pretty fast f/1.x something from Surplus Shed. I might have to look into that.

rwboyer · Dec 21, 2009

Bosaiya said:
Yes, I have a f/1.4 on small format, it's very nice! I'm just hoping to find something similar in a larger format.

Even large format would be nice, I'm running at f/2.9 on that as well. I read something on lfphoto.info about a pretty fast f/1.x something from Surplus Shed. I might have to look into that.

The most popular MF option I know of for hand held available light work at the moment is probably the Contax 645 with the standard F2 80mm. Unfortunately the prices on these kits is up in the $2000 range because they are super popular with wedding guys that shoot film. The results are fantastic from work I have seen they all use 800 speed color neg shot at 400 and Ilford Delta 3200 as a matter of course.

I can send you to about 2 dozen web sites if you would like to see what kind of work is being done with that body and lens.

RB

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

rwboyer said:
The most popular MF option I know of for hand held available light work at the moment is probably the Contax 645 with the standard F2 80mm. Unfortunately the prices on these kits is up in the $2000 range because they are super popular with wedding guys that shoot film. The results are fantastic from work I have seen they all use 800 speed color neg shot at 400 and Ilford Delta 3200 as a matter of course.

I can send you to about 2 dozen web sites if you would like to see what kind of work is being done with that body and lens.

RB

I will definitely look into that, thank you!

Slixtiesix · Dec 21, 2009

Norita 66 and Night Exakta had also fast 80/2 lenses, but they are rare...
Just wanted to mention them.

gandolfi · Dec 21, 2009

Slixtiesix said:
Norita 66 and Night Exakta had also fast 80/2 lenses, but they are rare...
Just wanted to mention them.

yes - I have the Norita with the 80mm 2.0.
(Unfortunately my students broke the camera...)

keithwms · Dec 21, 2009

The Mamiya 80/1.9 will cover 6x6. What you might do is take a mamiya rear cap and a body cap of whatever 6x6 body you want to adapt to, glue them together, drill out a center hole, and voila. It may work with some cameras. With other 645 bodies it'll probably not work because the contraption will move the lens too far from the film plane (thus giving up infinity focus). But with 6x6, it might work.

Then there is the 110/2.8 for the rz.... which I have used for close-focus shots on 4x5 and 5x7 view cameras.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 21, 2009

There's the 150/2.8 Xenotar for 4x5", same aperture as you have but larger format. Jerry Spagnoli uses one for daguerreotypes.

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

Slixtiesix said:
Norita 66 and Night Exakta had also fast 80/2 lenses, but they are rare...
Just wanted to mention them.

I had forgotten about those, thanks!

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

keithwms said:
The Mamiya 80/1.9 will cover 6x6. What you might do is take a mamiya rear cap and a body cap of whatever 6x6 body you want to adapt to, glue them together, drill out a center hole, and voila. It may work with some cameras. With other 645 bodies it'll probably not work because the contraption will move the lens too far from the film plane (thus giving up infinity focus). But with 6x6, it might work.

Then there is the 110/2.8 for the rz.... which I have used for close-focus shots on 4x5 and 5x7 view cameras.

I imagine any lens made for 6x4.5 would have to cover 6x6, so that's not a bad idea. It would certainly fit in with the rest of my Frankencameras!

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

David A. Goldfarb said:
There's the 150/2.8 Xenotar for 4x5", same aperture as you have but larger format. Jerry Spagnoli uses one for daguerreotypes.

I've got a few f/2.9 lenses for 4x5 already, but I might look into one of those Surplus Shed no-names.

gandolfi · Dec 21, 2009

very expensive, but what about an ernostar?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ernemann-Ernost...iewItemQQptZCamera_Lenses?hash=item5637e98aad

Jeff L · Dec 21, 2009

Rollei had some fast Schneider lenses for the 6000 series cameras. Not cheap though.

rphenning · Dec 21, 2009

keithwms said:
Then there is the 110/2.8 for the rz.... which I have used for close-focus shots on 4x5 and 5x7 view cameras.

the 110 can cover 4x5 with movements at close focus?? How close are we talking here?

rwboyer · Dec 21, 2009

rphenning said:
the 110 can cover 4x5 with movements at close focus?? How close are we talking here?

I have not used this lens before on LF but...

I would imagine that you are going to have issues with bellows and extension before you have issues with lens coverage on 4x5??

RB

Bosaiya · Dec 21, 2009

gandolfi said:
very expensive, but what about an ernostar?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ernemann-Ernost...iewItemQQptZCamera_Lenses?hash=item5637e98aad

Holy cow! Man, that guy cracks me up. He's always got things listed for two or three times what others sell them for.

It looks nice, but unfortunately I just got back from a tobacconist that's closing shop and I already have one kidney's worth of my body allotted to the most amazing leather-and-burl steamer trunk humidor I have ever seen. It's even got a huge compartment with a set of four full-sized crystal glasses and 1-liter crystal decanter.

Of course if I sold them both I could have a great time while it lasted smoking and drinking and taking fast photos!

Looking for a fast lens

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