Looking for a BW400CN-like b&w film. (or film, dev, and contrast filter combo)

Hey APUG,

So I love the look of BW400CN. It's got the perfect gradation of tones, and its contrast is perfect. The only problem for me is that is a color negative, meaning I have to get it developed elsewhere (i don't want to pay, nor home dev color film) and printing it on b&w never works the way I want it to. So my question is: Does anyone know of a b&w film, that when developed with a certain developer (and/or when printed at a certain contrast grade) achieves the look of BW400CN? I've tried HP5+ with HC-110, but that only sort of gets the contrast correct, and it lacks the smoother gradation of tones from a nice pure white to a deep black that bw400cn has.

An example of Bw400CN's look that I'm referring too (not my picture):http://www.flickr.com/photos/danielygo/3219603926/in/photostream/
Also if in your answer you could link/show a picture of your results that would be fantastic.

Thanks A Ton
mfp

I never used BW400CN but I've seen it. I never knew it was a Color Neg. wow....

dwdmguy said:

I never used BW400CN but I've seen it. I never knew it was a Color Neg. wow....

Click to expand...

Its NOT a color negative, it is a chromogenic b/w negative. This means the image on the negative after processing is a dye, rather than silver. It is compatible with C-41 color negative processing. Can be run thru the mini-lab right along with your color negatives.

I don't see anything particularly special about the photo linked in the above post. I would just use (for 35mm) Fuji Neopan 400, and develop in something like a pyro developer such as Wd2d+ for even better tones than BW400CN.

MFP said:

Hey APUG,

So I love the look of BW400CN. It's got the perfect gradation of tones, and its contrast is perfect. The only problem for me is that is a color negative, meaning I have to get it developed elsewhere (i don't want to pay, nor home dev color film) and printing it on b&w never works the way I want it to. So my question is: Does anyone know of a b&w film, that when developed with a certain developer (and/or when printed at a certain contrast grade) achieves the look of BW400CN? I've tried HP5+ with HC-110, but that only sort of gets the contrast correct, and it lacks the smoother gradation of tones from a nice pure white to a deep black that bw400cn has.

An example of Bw400CN's look that I'm referring too (not my picture):http://www.flickr.com/photos/danielygo/3219603926/in/photostream/
Also if in your answer you could link/show a picture of your results that would be fantastic.

Thanks A Ton
mfp

Click to expand...

Try Ilford XP2, it uses the same process, so it might have a similar result. Since it does not have the orange mask, it will work better for traditional printing. Other films to try are the TMax and Delta lines, as they are uniform grain films.

Rather then looking for something similar though, your better to look for a process you like, with an open mind.

The ilford xp2 is also chromogenic- you'd have to dev it in c41. So this is apparently not what MFP wants.

[Actually, bw400cn can be printed quite well via ordinary b&w paper, it just takes a bit of patience. I did some printing of it for someone and I cannot show the result but I'd say it was actually quite good in the end. I recall using multigrade paper and simply playing with some contrast filters... nothing fancy]

Anyway, MFP, based on the example you showed (which incidentally reminds me of scala), I'd recommend ilford fp4+. The grain will not offend. Tmax, acros, and delta 100 will probably not have enough edge bite and overall tonal contrast for your taste, judging by that example. If you're shooting 35mm and need a bit more speed then you might try agfa apx and neopan 400 as well.

Actually I'll go ahead and tick some people off and say that I think bw400CN has nothing on just about any professional 100-400 b&w film. In my opinion 400CN is soft, intolerant of highlights, and also has the annoying mask on top of all that. It's not in the same league as the xp2. Anyway I think phototone is right that neopan in wd2d+ may delight and amaze. For one thing it'll rein in the highlights much better than the 400CN. But the question is how you rate it; I guess you'd want to shoot it at 320 or even slower if those deep / blocked-up shadows are your thing.

The chromogenic films like XP-2 and BW400FN and the long discontinued Afga Vario-XL have their own unique tonalities that not everyone likes. BW400CN is optimiesed for B&W printing at Mini-labs on Colour paper whereas XP-2 is far better for printing on conventional B&W papers.

If you really want similar tonality using conventional B&W films then you need to use a heavily compensation developer, Rodinal at 1+100 to 1+200, D76 or Xtol at 1+3, these combinations compress the tonal range in a similar way to chrogenic films.

Ian

I find that Neopan 400 in a relatively fine grain developer can do almost anything. I've used it with Adox ADX, Ilford DD-X and Aculux-3 among others and it's fine with just about everything and can easily produce that sort of rich tonal range. At the moment, I like Neopan 400 exposed at about ASA250 in Aculux.

As others have already said, Ilford XP (and Fuji Neopan 400CN, their chromogenic film) are worth a look if you like BW400CN.

you need to look for tabulat grain emulsions - they allow you to get gently compressed shoulder - very important characteristics of the BW400CN.
try Delta 400 in DD-X
or Neopan 400 in DD-X or XTOL 1+2 or FX-39/37 (for high sharpness)
or Neopan 1600 - has bigger grain and somewhat unique character from these two above....

To me, one of the things that sticks out about using XP2 super is the lack of sharp grain. I don't mean it has more resolution than grainy film either, but it initially looks like it does because it doesn't show grain. If it does, it's ugly, mushy grain.

So if you are trying to find something that can give you that 'look' of BW400CN, it might be that you should try medium format, which doesn't show any grain in small print sizes.

By the way, I'm slowly falling in love with Neopan 400. If it wasn't for Arista Premium i think I might switch over entirely.