Looking for a 120 Film Box Camera

focus_on_infinity · Oct 6, 2021

It occurred to me that I like the idea of the simplicity of the box camera. I think I'd like to take some pictures that way. I saw some shots that people took using modern films, and I liked what those cheap old lenses did for the images.

I'm thinking of a Kodak Brownie, maybe a No 2 of some kind, but I'd be happy to consider anythimg else, as long as it's cheap and uses 120 film. What do you recommend?

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Oct 6, 2021

Zeiss Box Tengor 6x9 camera is another option for you. It's very simple to use and makes decent pics.

Donald Qualls · Oct 6, 2021

Most if not all Kodak branded box cameras made after 1940 (maybe a bit earlier) used 620, which is same film on a different spool. You can respool to fit them, as long as you have a couple 620 spools and process your own film, and some can feed from a 120 roll, reducing the 620- requirement to one spool. In many cases, it's worth it; a Brownie Hawkeye Flash is one of the best compact box cameras around (IMO). Kodak cameras made before Kodak introduced 620 film will, of course, use 120 (or 116/616, or possibly 124, though I'm unsure if Kodak made box cameras in that size).

Most other box cameras use 120. I like my Ansco Shur-Shot Jr. -- classic 6x9 box camera, takes 120 natively, decent image quality for what it is. And they're still cheap on eBay.

Willy T · Oct 6, 2021

Agfa Clack

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Oct 6, 2021

Whichever box camera you finally choose, you might want to go for one that has T or B speed so that you can do long exposures.

Donald Qualls · Oct 6, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Whichever box camera you finally choose, you might want to go for one that has T or B speed so that you can do long exposures.

Good point. Even better if it has a tripod socket, though a blind nut in a short board and some small bungees or large rubber bands can do this job pretty well.

Dismayed · Oct 6, 2021

The Zeiss Box Tengor and Agfa Clack cameras are solid choices. The Altissa box cameras are a viable option, too. perhaps look at flickr images to see which lenses you like best.

Nicholas Lindan · Oct 6, 2021

3rd vote for the Zeiss Tengor: All metal; Focusing achromat lens (by the strange method of moving close-up lenses into place behind the main lens); Some small range of f-stops (9, 11 & 16 IIRC); Time exposures; 6x9 negatives. Probably the best box camera made - not a 'Krappy Kam'. A selection of work https://www.lomography.com/cameras/3328923-zeiss-ikon-box-tengor-54/photos, more findable with google. Sorry to say I got rid of mine in one of those fit-of-madness clean outs.

The Clack (I've never owned one) may be the best choice if you want a less 'sophisticated' camera. Agfa made solid products, I have several Agfa Sillettes. Thankfully, the Clack won't suffer from "Green Goo" syndrome.

I have a #2 Brownie and I would not recommend one. They are made from cloth covered cardboard and mine has warped over the years: the back doesn't fit well and light leaks abound; trying to tape over the leaks led to torn cloth and cardboard when I removed the tape to remove the film.

ciniframe · Oct 6, 2021

Too bad there is no modern equivalent of the box style 6x9 camera. Probably because even a simple version would need to be retailed at $100 or so to break even on fabrication costs. The only reason the Holga is as cheap is because there are a gazillion of them. Also too bad the great yellow father ruined so many of otherwise useable cameras with that whole 620 spool size. Yeah, I know, there are workarounds but it would be so nice just to load the damm film without any drama.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 6, 2021

focus_on_infinity said:
It occurred to me that I like the idea of the simplicity of the box camera. I think I'd like to take some pictures that way. I saw some shots that people took using modern films, and I liked what those cheap old lenses did for the images.

I'm thinking of a Kodak Brownie, maybe a No 2 of some kind, but I'd be happy to consider anything else, as long as it's cheap and uses 120 film. What do you recommend?

Balda box cameras can be had for very little money. They are very durable. I have two; both older than 100 years and still working perfectly. They take 120 film but only have a simple meniscus lens and a slide-in aperture control. Still, image quality is decent.

Donald Qualls · Oct 6, 2021

ciniframe said:
Too bad there is no modern equivalent of the box style 6x9 camera. Probably because even a simple version would need to be retailed at $100 or so to break even on fabrication costs.

Hire a Chinese elementary school to do shutter and box assembly, buy suitable lenses in bulk (a few cents each in 1000+ quantity, even for a custom prescription), get the three springs and two other metal parts in bulk from a Chinese factory, use injection molded parts where you can, followed by stamped steel and paperboard, and you should be able to make a simple box camera that sells for under $20 even in today's economy. And there's no money to spend on design -- just copy something a hundred years old.

Now, whether you'd sell even an initial run, even at that price, is the real question, and the reason we haven't seen any new box cameras (other than 35mm semi-disposable) for the "film resurgence". There are so many old ones around, and they're so simple (easy to clean and repair, barring actual broken metal parts) that it'd make as much economic sense as trying to produce a new 35mm SLR design.

Nicholas Lindan · Oct 6, 2021

Or you could just buy a disposable 35mm, some are even re-loadable. You'll get the same crappy lens look.

I have an old Vivitar/Superheadz 22mm Ultra Wide; quite a bit of fun. They used to be $17.

This 'film resurgence' has millennials bidding up the price of cameras to idiotic heights. People with more money than sense.

ciniframe · Oct 6, 2021

One thing for sure. If you have only shot and developed 35mm then the first time you unreel a roll of 6x9 after the final rinse it is an amazing experience. And finally, a contact sheet is big enough to really read.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 6, 2021

I use my grandfather's six-20. Have to respool 120 onto 620 spool, which is a piece is cake. If you don't have a light tight room, just use a changing bag.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Oct 6, 2021

ciniframe said:
If you have only shot and developed 35mm then the first time you unreel a roll of 6x9 after the final rinse it is an amazing experience. And finally, a contact sheet is big enough to really read.

True that! 6x9 B&W slides are also spellbinding, not only the first time you unreel the roll but every time! HP5+ is an easy film to make slides if OP wants to take that route.

Dismayed · Oct 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Hire a Chinese elementary school to do shutter and box assembly, buy suitable lenses in bulk (a few cents each in 1000+ quantity, even for a custom prescription), get the three springs and two other metal parts in bulk from a Chinese factory, use injection molded parts where you can, followed by stamped steel and paperboard, and you should be able to make a simple box camera that sells for under $20 even in today's economy. And there's no money to spend on design -- just copy something a hundred years old.

Now, whether you'd sell even an initial run, even at that price, is the real question, and the reason we haven't seen any new box cameras (other than 35mm semi-disposable) for the "film resurgence". There are so many old ones around, and they're so simple (easy to clean and repair, barring actual broken metal parts) that it'd make as much economic sense as trying to produce a new 35mm SLR design.

Sounds as if you're ready for a kickstarter campaign! Offer a pre-design special price of $99.

focus_on_infinity · Oct 6, 2021

ciniframe said:
One thing for sure. If you have only shot and developed 35mm then the first time you unreel a roll of 6x9 after the final rinse it is an amazing experience. And finally, a contact sheet is big enough to really read.

I don't do much 35mm. My consumption this year is mostly 4x5, and then 120, and then 35mm. Aside from 36exp just taking too long for me to finish a role, I like the tangibility of big negatives. I can't really see a 35mm negative. It's just too small. 6x9 seems like an appealing format.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 6, 2021

Look for a Hawkeye Brownie. Some of them take 120.

MattKing · Oct 6, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
Look for a Hawkeye Brownie. Some of them take 120.

And some of them can be used with 120 on the feed side, and a 620 spool on the takeup side.

Donald Qualls · Oct 6, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
Look for a Hawkeye Brownie. Some of them take 120.

The older ones. The progression seems to be: first gen would take 120 supply, second gen will accept 120 with the spool flanges trimmed flush to the backing paper on the roll, third gen (about half of production, I think) require both 620 diameter and length on the supply side. All require 620 takeup, as the drive key won't quite engage a 120 spool even if trimmed.

It might be possible that the ones with metal advance knob are the oldest, but I don't know that's been confirmed; otherwise, you'd need the CAMEROSITY code to know how old the camera is and then still not know when they revised the supply clips. FWIW, I've got two, both plastic knob, one what I describe above as 2nd gen, and the other 3rd. Still worth respooling for if you like simple cameras.

Pioneer · Oct 6, 2021

My Kodak #2 Brownie, which used to belong to my grandmother, just keeps working. My mom gave it to me after Grandma died because she knew I enjoyed photography. It worked on the very first roll of film, though I have no idea how long it sat around unused, and it continues to work and I have never had one light leak. It is very simple but amazingly satisfying to use. I use it a lot more than my Holgas (now those are the light leak kings.)

Nicholas Lindan · Oct 6, 2021

Pioneer said:
My Kodak #2 Brownie ... just keeps working.

It might be the humidity that caused mine to warp. Certainly the shutter, film wind and all that work. I had to replace the little frame counter window with a glued on square cut from the deep red filter in Rosco's sample book.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
The older ones. The progression seems to be: first gen would take 120 supply, second gen will accept 120 with the spool flanges trimmed flush to the backing paper on the roll, third gen (about half of production, I think) require both 620 diameter and length on the supply side. All require 620 takeup, as the drive key won't quite engage a 120 spool even if trimmed.

It might be possible that the ones with metal advance knob are the oldest, but I don't know that's been confirmed; otherwise, you'd need the CAMEROSITY code to know how old the camera is and then still not know when they revised the supply clips. FWIW, I've got two, both plastic knob, one what I describe above as 2nd gen, and the other 3rd. Still worth respooling for if you like simple cameras.

I've got second gen. A quick trim with nail clippers and Bob's your uncle. I don't mind respooling for the Six-20, either. Fun camera to work with.

Pioneer · Oct 6, 2021

Nicholas Lindan said:
It might be the humidity that caused mine to warp. Certainly the shutter, film wind and all that work. I had to replace the little frame counter window with a glued on square cut from the deep red filter in Rosco's sample book.

Certainly could be. Humidity can certainly cause things to warp. I live in Nevada so humidity is very low but the camera came from Minnesota where humidity in the summer can be atrocious.

Either way it just amazes me that these old camera just continue to work. I also have a No 1 Pocket Kodak that seems to be immortal. I had to replace the red window on the back but everything else still works as if it were new. I could certainly be wrong but I do believe that,, as long as 120 film is available, these cameras will continue to work if I treat them properly.

Gimenosaiz · Oct 6, 2021

Hi!

A vote for the Box Tengor. I also like a lot the Altissa Box.

Kind regards
Antonio

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