Looking at my Werra 1

sruddy · Feb 5, 2023

I have a small camera collection and just pulled a Werra 1 of the shelf to find out more about it. Here is a decent page on the camera line. https://cjo.info/classic-cameras/carl-zeiss-jena-werra-series/ after reading I wish I had a version 3 or model 5 with working meter. Here is mine which seems to be working so I’ll try shooting a roll of film.

Ian Grant · Feb 5, 2023

I bought one a couple of years ago, they are mazing cameras. Mine has a meter, but is not like any in the manuals etc, seems to be an extinction meter.

I have a 3 Focal Press Camera books from the late 1950s early 60s. There's a good 3 or 4 pages on the Werra cameras. The books cover most of the better 35mm to 120 cameras then available, essentially they précis data from the small Focal Press camera guides which were very good. I'll scan one of the books tomorrow, just the Werra pages. I like to have the data for my own cameras, I'm surprised I haven't scanned them already,

It's good you have the hood and lens cap, they are often missing.

Ian

sruddy · Feb 5, 2023

Ian Grant said:
I bought one a couple of years ago, they are mazing cameras. Mine has a meter, but is not like any in the manuals etc, seems to be an extinction meter.

I have a 3 Focal Press Camera books from the late 1950s early 60s. There's a good 3 or 4 pages on the Werra cameras. The books cover most of the better 35mm to 120 cameras then available, essentially they précis data from the small Focal Press camera guides which were very good. I'll scan one of the books tomorrow, just the Werra pages. I like to have the data for my own cameras, I'm surprised I haven't scanned them already,

It's good you have the hood and lens cap, they are often missing.

Ian

Thanks Ian.

BMbikerider · Feb 5, 2023

Ian Grant said:
I bought one a couple of years ago, they are mazing cameras. Mine has a meter, but is not like any in the manuals etc, seems to be an extinction meter.

Ian

It won't be an extinction meter, they were well and truly yesterdays tool when the Werra landed in dealers shops, but far more likely a selenium photocell. Very much like a very small miniature solar panel. Does the front of the camera have a square window with either a grid over the front or clear plastic with moulded bumps all over. If so, that is a selenium meter. The bad news is these will be around at LEAST 60 years old and will probably have ceased working completely or be hopelessly inaccurate. They are probably non repairable.

The Werra1 was the one without the meter but the other models had in various options of a meter and a rangefinder but top of the pile was the one that had interchangeable lenses, apart form the 50mm Tessar there was a 35mm and I think an 85 or 90mm.

The weak spot in the construction was reputed to be the film-wind on and shutter cocking mechanism where you twist the black collar round the base of the lens. Inside the collar, this is connected to a wire cable that wound on the film/cocked the shutter all in one. That had a habit of snapping or coming apart at either end! Sometimes both ends at once.

Ian Grant · Feb 5, 2023

BMbikerider said:
It won't be an extinction meter but far more likely a selenium photocell. Very much like a very small miniature solar panel. Does the front of the camera have a square window with either a grid over the front or plastic with moulded bumps all over. If so, that is a selenium meter. The bad news is these will be around at LEAST 60 years old and will probably have ceased working completely or be hopelessly inaccurate. They are probably non repairable.

It appears not to be a Selenium cell John, although at first glance you'd think it is. I'm well aware what Selenium cells are, how they work etc, I've been using them for around 55 years

The camera came from a FADU member, it's an odd one not in the English language manuals or other publications, with this meter. There were variations not listed, after all early models had Compur shutters, then various Eastern German shutters. It needs photographs and comments on what affects the meter, it's not the front "cell", rather an opaque window 90º above it. Believe me it's weird.

It's strange which Selenium meters fail over time, oddly it's some of the better ones, Weston Master V and Euromasters are the worst, and then I have a pre WWII Avo meter that's still accurate, also a pre-WWII Gossen meter that's similar still accurate. I know that the Olympus Trip cameras relied on their Selenium meters, and a fix is to move the position of the wires on the cell as it's not the cell itself that has deteriorated rather the connection. But hey I use much older cameras, mostly.

Ian

Rolleiflexible · Feb 5, 2023

My dad (who would be 105 tomorrow) was gifted a Werra from an Army buddy from WWII. My dad was an avid photographer, but I don't think he ever shot the camera. I have it now, in its original blue and white box. I've never shot it either. I should go dig it out from storage and have a look.

Kino · Feb 5, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
My dad (who would be 105 tomorrow) was gifted a Werra from an Army buddy from WWII. My dad was an avid photographer, but I don't think he ever shot the camera. I have it now, in its original blue and white box. I've never shot it either. I should go dig it out from storage and have a look.

If you really want to shoot with it, don't even cock the shutter but send it in for a CLA and THEN play with it.

I got a mint one that lasted about 3 advances and then froze.

Lesson learned...

cliveh · Feb 5, 2023

I had a Werra 1 and the thing about it is the fact that is the most minimal design concept camera, with he mother of all lens hoods. Combine this with a 2.8 Zeiss Tessar lens and you have a superb camera. I would value a Werra 1 over other Werra models any day.

reddesert · Feb 5, 2023

My parents have a Werra, with a rangefinder and a selenium meter with flip up cover, and the cap/hood. They bought it in the 60s (on I believe the advice of an uncle who was into photography). It has the olive green leatherette, which is nice looking and very distinctive. Probably nearly all of their photos of the children, vacation photos, etc were taken with it.

ic-racer · Feb 5, 2023

Very nice! Thanks for sharing the pictures of the camera!

Ian Grant · Feb 6, 2023

I found the Werra cameras weren't in the book I'd previously scanned from, however they are in the 1963/4 which I bought more recently, I'll create a PDF of the data.

Ian

BMbikerider · Feb 6, 2023

Ian Grant said:
It appears not to be a Selenium cell John, although at first glance you'd think it is. I'm well aware what Selenium cells are, how they work etc, I've been using them for around 55 years

The camera came from a FADU member, it's an odd one not in the English language manuals or other publications, with this meter. There were variations not listed, after all early models had Compur shutters, then various Eastern German shutters. It needs photographs and comments on what affects the meter, it's not the front "cell", rather an opaque window 90º above it. Believe me it's weird.

It's strange which Selenium meters fail over time, oddly it's some of the better ones, Weston Master V and Euromasters are the worst, and then I have a pre WWII Avo meter that's still accurate, also a pre-WWII Gossen meter that's similar still accurate. I know that the Olympus Trip cameras relied on their Selenium meters, and a fix is to move the position of the wires on the cell as it's not the cell itself that has deteriorated rather the connection. But hey I use much older cameras, mostly.

Ian

Your description does not fit anything I have come across before. The opaque window as you describe it sounds very much like the reflected light source for a frame within the viewfinder, very much on the style of the finder on a Kodak Retinette 1a or 1b where there used to be an opaque window to one side of the finder.
Can you describe how the 'meter' works. What sort of measuring scale does it have? Does it have a range of ISO (or ASA/DIN in those days)

miha · Feb 6, 2023

I have two WERRA cameras, shutters failed on both.

cliveh said:
I would value a Werra 1 over other Werra models any day.

Why? No need for a build-in rangefinder as it is the case with later models?

MattiS · Feb 6, 2023

Hi, the Werra V model has two windows for the light meter. The obvious one with the hood at the front for measuring and the opaque one right to the trigger which illuminates the lightmeter scale in the finder (I just tested it). ISO selector (6 to 400) is located at the bottom end of the aperture ring

BMbikerider · Feb 6, 2023

I have looked at Camera-Wiki under the Werra brand name and they cover all the cameras made under that name in around the late 1950's to their demise in the middle 1960's It seems there 2 types of meter fitted to the various Werra models and both used selenium cellss. One had a clear window on top of the camera with the usual type of scale with black and white stripes indicated to by a needle and another which had a needle which pointed to a number. You then went to the back of the camera and used what they termed as 'a ready reckoner' to get the exposure.

The meter itself had two levels of sensitivity and was placed at the extreme right had of the top plate in the front. With level one a cover was in front of the cell pierced by about 8 or 9 holes which admitted a small proportion of light. For level 2 you lifted up this flap to expose the whole of the cell.

However as yours as you say is/was a Werra 1 a similar model which I also owned briefly in 1966, did not have any form of metering at all.

I have looked up the description of an extinction meter to refresh my memory and that would have had a variable density scale with figures in a form of a density step-wedge or adjustable diaphragm and would have required an additional window near to the viewfinder both on the front and the back.
I owned a camera in the very early 1960's made by AG Instrumentation in Croydon, South London in the late 1950's called an Agimatic. That had the step wedge type of meter and was surprisingly accurate - if you had all the time in the world because it was a very slow to work and depended on your eyesight to adjust to the light levels prevailing at the time

That too had a similar film wind-on to the Werra, but instead of rotating a collar round the lens there was a lever on the side of the lens mount which you pressed down to wind the film and pressed again to fire the shutter. I wonder if the Werra was a copy and an improvement of the AGI version?

In the picture there are three windows on the front, the left one was the rangefinder, the right one was the viewfinder and the centre one was the extinction meter window with the step-wedge behind. To see the figures on the step wedge you had to look through a corresponding peep-hole at the back and wait for your eyes to adjust! That too had a 'Ready Reckoner' on the back to work out the exposure

Your Werra 1 has none of the windows on the front except the viewfinder

MattiS · Feb 6, 2023

For comparison - the earlier type of lightmeter display on top of the camera showing EVs.

Ian Grant · Feb 6, 2023

Here is the Werra data from 1963/4

It turns out my Werra has a coupled meter, it doesn't look like any in the attached PDF. Now I've found the DIN/ASA settings which are almost invisible it must be a variant of the Werramat.

Ian

henryvk · Feb 6, 2023

This source maintains that the Werra III's viewfinder works uppon the same principle as the 1956 GOMZ Leningrad rangefinder camera:

Werra Camera

They call it a "Keppler" (sic!) type, which I assume means a Kepler-type telescopic finder?

Anyway, here is some very detailed documentation and history on the Werra line, unfortunately only in German:

Werra | zeissikonveb.de

Werra camera, Werra Kamera, Werraflex Carl Zeiss Jena

zeissikonveb.de

Ian Grant · Feb 6, 2023

@MattiS kindly emailed my the above link, and my camera is a Werramat, as I thought.

Ian

Rolleiflexible · Feb 6, 2023

Found it! Werra 1 with its original box and manuals (German and English):

BMbikerider · Feb 6, 2023

They are not EV's but are aperture numbers from F2.8 to F22

sruddy · Feb 6, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
Found it! Werra 1 with its original box and manuals (German and English):

Nice!

Ian Grant · Feb 6, 2023

BMbikerider said:
They are not EV's but are aperture numbers from F2.8 to F22

Seems there are some Werra cameras that use something similar to an EV scale, this is from one of their manuals.

You've helped my identify my Werramat, thank you, now the meter etc makes sense. Here's the elusive DIN/ASA scale.

I've shot some other images of the camera for reference.

Ian

ant! · Feb 6, 2023

I have my mother's Werra (also the 1, first original one without a number, in green), which her father had bought in the 50s. My mother lost the lens hood in the 70s or early 80s, dropped it in Budapest in the Danube...

I had shot one or two films through it about 10 years ago, but it definitely needs a CLA. Seems like all the shutter speeds run at the same speed, and of course the focus and other controls could be smoother. I like the look, but have quite a few other cameras which I am more comfortable using. I guess for CLA I should bring it with me when I am next time in Germany, or do you think any camera repair place should be able to work on it (recently I am using Service Camera Pro in Quebec City...).

BMbikerider · Feb 6, 2023

Ian Grant said:
Seems there are some Werra cameras that use something similar to an EV scale, this is from one of their manuals.

View attachment 328912

You've helped my identify my Werramat, thank you, now the meter etc makes sense. Here's the elusive DIN/ASA scale.

View attachment 328913

I've shot some other images of the camera for reference.

View attachment 328917

View attachment 328914

View attachment 328915

View attachment 328916

Ian

It is - sort of, but a true EV scale works in a different way and if they are used on a camera they are usually linked so if you move the scale the relative F no. and shutter speed also move together. Looking at my Weston Master 5 that has a similar sort of arrangement with figures at the end of each black mark on the readout scale. To get an exposure, take a reading and see where the needle comes to rest, you then match up that number number to the large red arrow on the rim and that gives you the exposure There is also a window for EV's and a further ring on the scales to turn and that shows different exposure values for that EV

Looking at my Werra 1

sruddy

Ian Grant

sruddy

BMbikerider

Ian Grant

Rolleiflexible

Kino

cliveh

reddesert

ic-racer

Ian Grant

BMbikerider

miha

MattiS

BMbikerider

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MattiS

Ian Grant

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henryvk

Werra | zeissikonveb.de

Ian Grant

Rolleiflexible

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BMbikerider

sruddy

Ian Grant

ant!

BMbikerider

Looking at my Werra 1

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