looking at 120 folders for walkaround camera

Malinku · Mar 22, 2016

So Im looking for a more portable medium format camera. As I want something a bit better for long walks then my two tlrs.

I currently use a super ricohflex as my light medium format camera. It works very well when in use but if Im not shooting it is a bit of a pain to haul around. I dont always want to shoot a tlr either.

So i think an old folding camera would be a good choice for me to look at. Im wanting something with similar specs to my super ricohflex.

A 4.5 or faster aperture
a shutter with a max speed of 300 or so.
costs around $100 or less
Needs to be either 6x6 or 645 Due to my current enlargers

BrianShaw · Mar 22, 2016

I went through the same quest, but decided that I either tried the wrong camera or I'd need to pay more money for something better. Kodak Duo 645 was my attempt. Cool old camera, light, and fits in a coat pocket. But the 620 film needs to be spooled from 120, the red window bleeds through on fast film, and the range focus requires better distance estimation than I can offer. In the end I went back to a folding 35mm Kodak Retina for a folding travel camera with more convenience. The Retina was a bit more than $100 though.

BrianShaw · Mar 23, 2016

Before that I traveled with a Rolleicord. Not a folder but lightweight, good optics, and quite reliable. Also a bit more than $100 but...

Fixcinater · Mar 23, 2016

I just watched two Super Ikonta 6x6s go on auction (eBay) for half of your proposed budget or just slightly higher. Could be a good option, coupled rangefinder...could be used 645 or 6x6 if the back allows it, no respooling necessary, could be got with a Tessar 80/2.8, folding, lighter than an RB67, have shutters to 1/300 or 1/500.

HiHoSilver · Mar 23, 2016

Malinku, in the budget range, both Macfred & I have gotten Super Ikontas in the last few months. Image quality is better than my shooting skills. Macfred's images will be a page or so into the std. gallery.

Malinku · Mar 23, 2016

the ziess ikontas would be a good fit for what I want to do thanks.

Down Under · Mar 23, 2016

My suggestions (only). Up to you to make the final decision. Good luck!

Go for a Voigtlander Perkeo I or II. The best folder around, ever. Pay a little more for the Color Skopar f/3.5. Go minimalist on accessories, a rangefinder (if like me,you find it difficult to estimate distances), a lens hood, and either a UV or a yellow-green filter. You will never, ever look back. Trust me on this one. I did, and I haven't. Mine cost me A$95 plus postage on Ebay. I often see them with the lesser (but almost as good) quality Vaskar, for up to A$250. Those sellers are dreaming... $125-$130, tops.

I've owned Agfas (great lenses, lousy shutters and bellows), Nettars (finding a good one is difficult), and Super Ikontas (OK if you are happy with 11 shots on a 120 roll, also if it breaks down or needs any repairs at all, you will be considerably poorer at the end), and various other ones. The Voigtlander is THE camera. Hidden gems, they are.

For larger walkaround cameras, I went with the Rolleiflex T. Some people peddle a load of verbal garbage about how flimsy they are, pure BS, in my opinion. They are indestructible if you handle them properly, don't hang them around, but use them. The Tessar lenses are great. Few accessories. My T kit has a lens hood, a few filters, and a 16 exposure kit (if you learn to crank the right way, you'll get 17 shots on a 120 roll), a prism (I got it cheap but rarely use it), and a generic brand grip.

My favorite camera now, and my current sweetheart, is the Fuji GA645i with a 60mm (35mm equivelent in '35') lens. I also have a 645wi (28mm equivalent), recently bought, yet to be tested. the 'i' models give you 16 shots to the 120 roll, the older models only 15. A note of caution, be sure to check the electronics carefully before/if you buy, these are not new cameras. Other than a lens hood and a UV, no other accessories needed. Somewhat on the high price side, tho.

The Mamiya RZs produce great results, but remind me of a Graflex camera. I'm not fit enough to want to lug one of those tanks around the streets. End of story for me.

Others will give you plenty of advice, most of it probably accurate. Different strokes for different folks. It all works down to what suits you best.

Don't rush to buy. And be sure to enjoy. Nothing equals the 'high' of shopping for a new camera.

JD in Hobart, Tasmania.

zanxion72 · Mar 23, 2016

Have a look at the Zeiss Ikonta cameras. I own and love the Ikonta 521/A. It is a nice compact medium format folder that shoots 645 frames (or should I say 456 with respect to the default orientation of the frame). It is lightweight, the anastigmat lens produces decent results and it is a joy to use.

Newt_on_Swings · Mar 23, 2016

I'm partial to my super ikonta iv, rangefinder coupled, auto frame counter, even a light meter! and best of all the lens is top of the line. For something so compact you cant get much better. My only gripe is the film spacing if you do not pad your rolls with a bit of tape to create just a bit of thickness. Can be a hassle if you shoot a lot or fast, it will slow your reloading time.

macfred · Mar 23, 2016

To beat the big drum for those Zeiss Ikon folders … Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta III 531/16 - Novar Anastigmat f/3.5 75mm

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An der Emscher by Andreas, on Flickr

Mia by Andreas, on Flickr

It does color too …

Stairsway and shadow play by Andreas, on Flickr

Sugar Mountain by Andreas, on Flickr

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Super Ikonta III - 531/16 by Andreas, on Flickr

R.Gould · Mar 23, 2016

Virtualy any German made folder from the late forties to the early fifties would suit the bill. From personal experiance Zeiss Ikon Ikonta, Vioghtlander Perkeo, even the Vasker lens is no slouch, Balda Super Baldax, Franka Solida cameras. to name a few, Agfa made great folders, but be careful with Agfa as their bellows are sometimes made of a plastic and tend to need replacing, also Ensign cameras from good old GB were the equal of the German folders and are well worth looking at, especialy if fitted with a Ross Xpres lens, the best of the tessar type lenses, be prepared for the shutter to stick at slower speeds, a common problem due to lack of use, I personally have never had a bad bellows, although I don't have a Agfa folder, also, if you get one with out a built in rangefinder then a small shoe mounted rangefinder is worth getting, you can pick them up for £5 to £10GBP
Richard

BrianShaw · Mar 23, 2016

Nice images folks. I'd love to have your luck finding Super Ikontas for $100 or less. Most that I see at that price look like beaters that probably need a lot of work to get it functioning, and the better condition cameras are priced high enough that I'm not likely to be a buyer. Perhaps I should be looking at the other options that Richard mentioned?????

Ko.Fe. · Mar 23, 2016

I really like original, not converted 645 over 6x6. They are incredibly small, gives 16 frames and no paper waste (crop) under enlarger. Just any camera which works.
Usually it is Zeiss mostly available, if not only. I have old, prewar Nettar, with uncoated lens.
It was relatively easy to get slow speeds working, easy to clean and calibrate lens.

This is how negatives looks like:

I have tried couple of very small Bessa 66 (too complicated) and just recently Franka Solida III with f2.9 (weird) lens and this little Nettar 515 is to keep.
It is smaller than many 135 cameras, but frame size is large enough to be in MF league.

R.Gould · Mar 23, 2016

BrianShaw said:
Nice images folks. I'd love to have your luck finding Super Ikontas for $100 or less. Most that I see at that price look like beaters that probably need a lot of work to get it functioning, and the better condition cameras are priced high enough that I'm not likely to be a buyer. Perhaps I should be looking at the other options that Richard mentioned?????

all of the cameras I mentioned I have and use, all are in good condition cosmetically some have needed a CLA, not surprisingly, all were bought from a dealer over here, and all cost me under £60GBP, the Franka Solida, which is in near perfect condition, near mint, cost me £30GBP. Ikonta supers in good condition I find very expensive, in some cases £200, beaters can be bought foe £60, but they need a lot of work, and the folders I use will take just as good photos, I can talk from a lot of experience with them as apart from my Rolleis I never use anything else for MF work, and I use folders more than my Tlr's
Richard

paul ron · Mar 23, 2016

i love my zenobia, a shirt pocket folder that just cant be beat.

i bought it 15 years ago and cla it myself for a wopping $15.

http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Zenobia

Rick A · Mar 23, 2016

I carry a Zeiss Nettar 6x6 (517/16) for my pocket camera these days. Small enough to slip into a jacket or cargo pocket of my shorts, sweet large negative. Love the glass, 75/4.5 Novar set in a Pronto shutter, I don't use film faster than iso 100, so i don't need speeds faster than 1/200.

michr · Mar 23, 2016

I use a Zeiss Nettar with an accessory rangefinder, and it works fine and was about $50 for the camera. Accessory rangefinders can be had for less than $20 and used elsewhere, which I do on my Semi-Minolta which is a 50s Japanese folder inspired by the 6x4.5 Ikonta.

macfred · Mar 23, 2016

BrianShaw said:
I'd love to have your luck finding Super Ikontas for $100 or less ...

I bought my Super Ikonta III 531/16 for about 100 £GBP - CLA'd - from a British trader. It's worth every penny !

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Great photographs, gentlemen !
@Ko.Fe. : I really like your 'gas pump' !!

Roger Cole · Mar 23, 2016

BrianShaw said:
Before that I traveled with a Rolleicord. Not a folder but lightweight, good optics, and quite reliable. Also a bit more than $100 but...

Well he did say he wanted to get away from TLRs. And I'm not sure how the Rolleicord compares in size and weight to what he already has. Otherwise I'd suggest that some Yashica TLRs can come close to, but not within for a good one, that under $100 mark.

This all sounds to me like a camera that has been defined out of existence in the sense nothing is going to be medium format, of a pleasing quality, highly portable, and come in under $100. The real kicker is probably the desire not to have distance focusing as otherwise a number of folders listed above would fit the bill. The suggestion of an accessory rangefinder is a good one and probably makes this possible.

Roger Cole · Mar 23, 2016

Of course some people do find rangefinders like the Super Ikonta III in working shape for less than $100. But that's very much a luck find, it seems to me. Could happen, but you can't count on it.

Alan9940 · Mar 23, 2016

I love my Agfa Isolette III and other than the somewhat pesky need to apply a short tongue to the beginning of every roll for proper spacing my Zeiss Super Ikonta III is a real pleasure, too.

Have fun!!

DWThomas · Mar 23, 2016

I like my Perkeo II with 80mm f/3.5 Color Skopar, but there's no rangefinder. I paid more like $200USD in 2008 but that was for a CLA'd unit. Voigtländer and some others make a separate shoe mount auxiliary rangefinder, but a few years back when I followed some on ePrey, they, especially the Voigtländer, sold for prices as though a camera came with them.

One also needs to be cognizant that some cameras -- and some rangefinders -- come marked in feet, others in meters. A mismatch might not be much better than estimating (which is what I generally do).

Pioneer · Mar 23, 2016

My absolute favorite folding camera is my Kodak Monitor 620. Absolutely rock solid with beautiful images, color and black & white. As the name indicates, it does require and extra step of moving 120 film to 620 spindles, but that is actually not very hard to do.

I have a very nice 1937 Agfa Jsolette with a sweet little Solinar 80/4.5 lens which is a great pocket camera but you need to be willing to guess distance or use scale focusing. The old Agfa cameras had leather bellows so they held up a lot better than the later plastic versions produced after the War. Likewise my little Certo SS Dolly is very light and handy to use.

My opinion on folders as walk around cameras is a bit different than some others may be. These cameras are almost universally over 60 years old by now. Although they are pretty simple they are still more fragile than other designs that do not fold in or out. They need a bit more love and care than most cameras, even ones built around the same time. So be prepared to repair them from time to time. Either find a good tech or learn to fix them yourself. Further make sure the camera you buy is straight. Bellows are replaceable, lenses can be cleaned, shutter can be repaired. But struts, bent bodies, and other damage is very tough to repair, if not impossible. More so than other cameras, condition is probably more important than the brand you start with.

Denverdad · Mar 23, 2016

The Kodak Monitor 620 can be a great camera, especially with the Anastigmat Special lens. But like the Agfa folders they are notorious for having leaky bellows. Even units appearing in great condition may suffer from this. Replacement bellows are not readily available for these Kodaks, so that's something to think about if you are considering purchasing one.

36cm2 · Mar 23, 2016

Loved loved loved my Perkeo II. Sold it. Regret strongly.

looking at 120 folders for walkaround camera

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