Longevity of wetting agent solution concentrates

RodinalSpezial · Dec 12, 2023

I found this old thread replicating my issue with Adoflo, maybe it is interesting for some of you:

Adoflo plastic smell

I'll post here. I've got this 2019 Adoflo bottle and the content is smelling heavily of plastic, something like burnt bakelite or something like that. I know wetting agents have virtually indefinite shelf life as concentrates. What is causing that smell?

www.photrio.com

guangong · Dec 12, 2023

Doremus Scudder said:
Some of the surfactants used in wetting agents like Photo Flo can grow bacterial slime. This depends on the dilution (more water = more likely to grow things; working solutions only last a couple of days), whether the concentrate has a preservative, whether it gets inoculated or not, how susceptible the ingredients are in the first place (my European Photo Flo used ethylene glycol), etc.

If your wetting agents starts growing things, it's time to toss it.

Doremus

I never heard of anyone saving PhotoFlo after a developing session. It’s so inexpensive, just toss it into the drain at end of session.

Tom Kershaw · Dec 12, 2023

RodinalSpezial said:
I found this old thread replicating my issue with Adoflo, maybe it is interesting for some of you:

Adoflo plastic smell

I'll post here. I've got this 2019 Adoflo bottle and the content is smelling heavily of plastic, something like burnt bakelite or something like that. I know wetting agents have virtually indefinite shelf life as concentrates. What is causing that smell?

www.photrio.com

Thanks for the link. My old bottle of Mirasol does not have a strong burnt plastic smell, but neither is it odourless.

darkroommike · Dec 12, 2023

I have PhotoFlo from the 1970's! I took a class and every student that took that class had to buy a little kit of consumables that included film, paper, and (for some reason) a 4 oz. bottle of PhotoFlo. The last was puzzling since the school furnished all other chemicals for the class. Anyway I was the only one of the group that was taking the follow-on class so several other students gifted me with almost full bottles. Still working my way through those bottles.

Doremus Scudder · Dec 12, 2023

Photo Flo 200 and Photo Flo 600 seem to be a bit different products. The former is based on
Propylene glycol (CAS# 57-55-6). Photo Flo 600 is Ethylene Glycol (107-21-1). Both have an alcohol (maybe as a preservative?), Octylphenoxypolyethoxyethanol (9036-19-5) for Photo Flo 200, p-tert-octylphenoxy polyethoxyethyl alcohol (9002-93-1) for Photo Flo 600 (similar compounds, I believe).

Ilford Ilfosol uses isotridecanol, branched, ethoxylated (9043-30-5), which is also identified as Genepol or ethylene glycol ether along with the alcholol, 2-phenoxyethanal (122-99-6).

Photographers' Formulary Formaflo uses a mixture of Lauryl glucoside (110615-47-9) and decyl glucoside (68515-73-1) for the surfactant along with something else identified only with CAS# 98551-12-2.

The LegacyPro 200 Wetting agent appears identical to the Kodak Photo Flo 200 in composition.

The Tetenal Mirasol product in question lists Siloxan Polyalkylenoxidcopolymer (117272-76-1),
5-Chloro-2-methyl-3(2H)-isothiazolone with 2-methyl-3(2H)-isothiazolone (55965-84-9) and, for the alcohol, Alcohols, C12-15, ethoxylated 68131-39-5.

I don't know how biodegradable these all are in relation to each other or in what concentrations.

Best,

Doremus

MattKing · Dec 12, 2023

guangong said:
I never heard of anyone saving PhotoFlo after a developing session. It’s so inexpensive, just toss it into the drain at end of session.

If you run a lab and process volumes of film each day it makes sense to develop a systematic approach.
I may as well post a link to what I do, which is an intermediate approach: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resources/making-and-using-a-kodak-photo-flo-stock-solution.396/
I do believe it is worthwhile transferring the concentrate to a glass bottle.

pentaxuser · Dec 12, 2023

guangong said:
I never heard of anyone saving PhotoFlo after a developing session. It’s so inexpensive, just toss it into the drain at end of session.

Well you must have heard of at least one person - me. I mentioned doing this in #13 I make up 600ml at the Ilford recommended strength and use it for several films before changing it. It seems to work fine for several films.

I see no reason to change it if it works OK

pentaxuser

MattKing · Dec 12, 2023

pentaxuser said:
Well you must have heard of at least one person - me. I mentioned doing this in #13 I make up 600ml at the Ilford recommended strength and use it for several films before changing it. It seems to work fine for several films.

I see no reason to change it if it works OK

pentaxuser

It will work okay.
The question is whether it will be joined in the container by unwanted stuff that won't work okay with your film.
I keep mine overnight if I am going to be developing film on two successive days.
Any longer and it is quickly apparent that stuff begins to grow in there!

pentaxuser · Dec 12, 2023

MattKing said:
It will work okay.
The question is whether it will be joined in the container by unwanted stuff that won't work okay with your film.
I keep mine overnight if I am going to be developing film on two successive days.
Any longer and it is quickly apparent that stuff begins to grow in there!

Hmm I keep my wetting agent a lot longer than that and haven't yet seen any unwanted stuff. I may just be lucky, have low standards or the right water.

If I do seen any unwanted stuff in the future, is there any chance that blowing whisky fumes across the top of the bottle will kill the unwanted stuff. Otherwise, such by-products tend to go to waste the next day

pentaxuser

BobUK · Dec 12, 2023

The Mirasol I use only requires two drops from an eye dropper in the final rinse when developing films. Extremely economic so no need to retain for re-use.

Unless you live in an area were water is scarce I cannot see a need to retain used wash water with wetting agent.

What else is wetting agent used for in photography, apart from glazing as mentioned in the Mirasol instructions?

mrosenlof · Dec 13, 2023

Kodak photoFlow seems very long. I just ran out of a 20 year old bottle.

guangong · Dec 13, 2023

pentaxuser said:
Well you must have heard of at least one person - me. I mentioned doing this in #13 I make up 600ml at the Ilford recommended strength and use it for several films before changing it. It seems to work fine for several films.

I see no reason to change it if it works OK

pentaxuser

I didn’t intend to imply that PhotoFlo was discarded after one shot use. I use same solution for development session, and still use if continuing next day. I can’t remember when my large economy size bottle of Kodak PhotoFlo was bought, certainly more than 20 yrs ago. I transfer a small quantity to a smaller PhotoFlo bottle. I add a capful to a liter of water. This has worked for me for almost 70 yrs. Excluding water, this must be the cheapest chemical used in the darkroom.

Law251 · Feb 2, 2024

Tom Kershaw said:
Thanks for relating your experience. Looking at the old Mirasol in a pyrex beaker, the solution concentrate has a distinctly milky appearance compared to fresh solution which is completely clear.

I have a bottle of Mirasol that is about ten years old and it has the same problem. I have a bottle of Kodak Photoflo that is eighteen years old (!) and it is still crystal clear. The Mirasol is going to be dumped.

Longevity of wetting agent solution concentrates

RodinalSpezial

Adoflo plastic smell

guangong

Tom Kershaw

Adoflo plastic smell

darkroommike

Doremus Scudder

MattKing

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pentaxuser

MattKing

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pentaxuser

BobUK

mrosenlof

guangong

Law251

Longevity of wetting agent solution concentrates

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