Longer Shelf-Life Print Developer?

canvassy said:

...I can actually get Ilford Multigrade developer locally in 500ml bottles at a good price, so it's quite convenient and I actually quite like the developer. I just didn't like that I can only get through 2/3rds of it before it's bad...

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A can of Bloxygen will remedy this instantly.

canvassy said:

...I am also wanting to try Liquidol...

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Now I am as well.

Photo Engineer said:

I leave the link to you to search. I am not doing your work for you. Sorry.

PE

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Thank you. This is a simple matter of confusing syntax. It is quite common to find someone write a post with the following structure...... "further discussion can be found here" where the word "here" is a link, that is what I thought was your intention.

Photo Engineer said:

When I designed Liquidol for the Formulary, I used the latest Kodak technology to get long life. I have used bottles that are over 5 years old, and the same is true for F5. Nothing fancy is needed for keeping the concentrates.

PE

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That's exactly what I'm looking for, can't wait to try it out. Thanks PE

sepiareverb said:

A can of Bloxygen will remedy this instantly.

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I've never heard of that before, looks like it will work great. Thank you!

Whilst it is not part of this thread, but is just as relevant. I have kept RA4 colour paper developer in working strength solution in glass bottles for close on 6 months before I used it and there was no degradation. Plastic unless it is very thick will permeate oxygen which is the death knell of developers. Certain plastics are better than others, such as those with a membrane of sheet nylon. (Nylon bags are used by police for evidence bags where drugs are concerned so the evidence does not stink the place out - but it is still detectable by drug dogs). Glass is cheap enough, so well worth investing in a few of the appropriate sizes.

I mix my own Defender 54-D and get at least 4 months from the stock solution, often longer. Among the commercial products, Liquidol from Formulary is outstanding. It has great life both as a concentrate in the bottle and mixed in the tray, and it is an outstanding cold tone developer.

sepiareverb said:

Absolutely. I tested a gallon of used working solution, poured it into a 1 gallon plastic water jug, stored it for several months at room temperature and it still worked. Remarkable stuff. And besides the long life it produces lovely tonality on many papers. I am a big fan of Wolfgang Moersch, this was my introduction to his magnificent line of chemistry.

I too go through periods of not having time for the darkroom, and can't begin to count the number of bottles of DD-X or other mixed from powder developers I tossed. Now I use Bloxygen in all my developer bottles once opened, or as soon as they are bottled after mixing and I can't understand why this isn't common practice. I can leave a partial bottle of DD-X or a half full bottle of Perceptol on the shelf for months and months without any ill effects. I bought a large quantity of Neutol a few years ago, in a 5L jug when I got a deal, decanted it into one shot size glass bottles, topped off with bloxygen, and worked through it over the next two and a half years. That first bottle of bloxygen saved me at least $200 in developer. No darkroom should be without it.

Note, my ECO-4812 test above was without Bloxygen.

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By the way... Bloxygen is mostly Argon and is a super heavy gas. I would only recommend using it in glass bottles as plastic is semi-permeable if you are thinking about storing it for a long time otherwise plastic is good for short term storage. You could also use those wine preserving systems which are also Argon gas. If you do any welding, an Argon/Nitrogen mixture works almost as good.

The key to making any last longer is decant to smaller one time use bottles.

in additon to what i wrote previously ...
another option, if you aren't afraid of using something different
is
sumatranol C ( caffenol c made with sumatra beans )
and 20cc/L of ansco130 in there ..
i have a big tupperware container that has something like 4 or 5 gallons in it
i don't replenish, and it has lasted me 5 months ... i take some out, i make prints with it
i pour it back in the bucket ... i take some out, i process film with it, i pour it back in the bucket...
i got about 5 months about 200 prints ( both fiber and rc and paper negatives from 35mm to 8x10 ) and about
200 rolls/sheets of film from 110-5x7, some b/w, some c41+e6, all processed together i don't segregate ...

after i process the film, it goes back in the bucket ...

i pushed it to see how much i could get out of it .. and it have gone more, but i didn't want to get stuck with
a handful of grey or blank film because i wanted to see what its capacity was.

anyways sumatran bean caffenol has a very long tray and shelf life .. and when you think you are done with it
you pour out 1L and mix a fresh L of coffee, add vit c and washing soda and a little stock developer, and keep it running.

good luck !
john

The secret to a true long life paper developer is a two part developer, that would be the best option for a low volume user mixing from scratch.

I mix my own paper developer reformulated slightly from manufactures published formulae to give commercial strength liquid concentrates. I substitute the Sodium Carbonate with less Potassium Carbonate plus a small amount of Sodium Hydroxide to increase solubility - the substitution is quite critical, this mirrors commercial products from Ilford, Agfa (Fotoimpex/Adox now), and Kodak. My developers typically last at least a year on the shelf, often two or three while I was living abroad), and still work perfectly.

In the past I've cheated, while not a Print developer the same principle can be used. My main Film developer has been Pyrocat HD for over 10 years (only film developer for 8), I mixed Part A in Glycol but at double strength (to cut weight when flying) that'll keep for years. You could do the same with any PQ print developer a concentrated Part A in Glycol then most of the Sulphite and all of the Carbonate in Part B.

Ilford published two versions if ID-3 a soft working Metol dev for Prints & Films, one was a long lasting two part the other a single solution with a shorter shelf life. Kodak D165/Selectol Soft is essentially their clone of the same formula.

Ian

Hijacking this thread, but still on subject: does anyone know if Polymax T lasts long?

Spec sheet says shelf life is "indefinite" in a factory sealed bottle... Maybe, if decanted into smaller glass bottles, it can be kept for a long time.


Cheers,
Flavio

fdonadio said:

Hijacking this thread, but still on subject: does anyone know if Polymax T lasts long?

Spec sheet says shelf life is "indefinite" in a factory sealed bottle... Maybe, if decanted into smaller glass bottles, it can be kept for a long time.


Cheers,
Flavio

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I've successfully opened and used until they are empty bottles that were two years past their "expiry" date. No decanting, no argon gas, just using the bottles and caps that the developer comes in.

Once the concentrate gets that old, the concentrate gets darker and crystals start to form on the bottom, but they dissolve and the developer works in the expected manner.

farmersteve said:

By the way... Bloxygen is mostly Argon and is a super heavy gas. I would only recommend using it in glass bottles as plastic is semi-permeable if you are thinking about storing it for a long time otherwise plastic is good for short term storage. You could also use those wine preserving systems which are also Argon gas. If you do any welding, an Argon/Nitrogen mixture works almost as good.

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Yes, I use glass bottles. I've got a good stash of brown glass Boston rounds, just ordered another bunch of assorted caps yesterday.

canvassy said:

I've never heard of that before, looks like it will work great. Thank you!

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Has made all the difference for me. And I started out using it with DD-X in the plastic bottles that ilford supplies it in. Doesn't have an indefinite shelf life in that bottle, but long enough to use it all. I use all glass now, just ordered some 16oz glass syrup bottles for my new large size HC-110.

Photo Engineer said:

Try Liquidol from the Formulary. It has excellent shelf and tray life.

PE

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I second this. It's a simply badass developer. There's a "silkiness" to the blacks that I love. It's liquid concentrate and that lasts god-knows-how-long. Mixed, I rarely throw it away, I bottle the used dev and give it a spray of freon, and test-strip it my next session. If it seems weak, I splash a little concentrate in. The mixed, used dev seems to keep for weeks and weeks (of storage, not of constant use). I'll reuse it for test strips and contact sheets, though I'll usually make a fresh batch if it's rare paper or an "important" print.

And I do mostly lith printing, so the used dev may sit for weeks and weeks, with only a little in a beaker for an initial fixer time test. It's impressive stuff.

Thank you. We worked hard to get it right.

PE

Photo Engineer said:

Thank you. We worked hard to get it right.

PE

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What is special about this that B&H cannot ship it.?
Thank You

IDK, the Formulary can. But B&H won't ship a lot of things that other people can.

PE

What would be the best way of reusing/replenishing Liquidol when used with rotary processing? Perhaps start with 250 ml or so, use 60 in a drum, empty the used developer back into the 250 beaker, repeat as necessary watching the color of the solution, discard the 250 batch when it gets dark yellow to orange, mix a new batch from stock and start again? Store the 250 in a 250 boston round, and top off from fresh working solution that is stored in perhaps a 125ml bottle??

Before I start that routine, I would greatly appreciate some recommendations. It sounds like Liquidol is my next go-to developer. Thanks Ron for your work on it's development - it sounds like a great product.

Stephen, Liquidol was never designed for replenishment, although it can be. I would just keep topping off the volume as it is used. There is no replenisher formula.

PE

Just to say there's a similar discussion going on in this link:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Terry S

canvassy said:

I've only ever used the Ilford paper developer, I've never tried anything else yet. Thanks for the suggestions, I appreciate it.

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In my experience and that of friends of mine, Dektol would not be on my list as a long lasting developer. As a working solution the longest that I can leave it in a tray is for one printing session (not even 24 hours). As a stock solution it doesn't last long either. It is great developer, just doesn't last long. LPD, on the other hand has, for me a working solution tray life of two, maybe three sessions and as a stock solution life of as long as a year or so.......Regards!

I use Kalogen, a concentrated developer, for both films and papers. It is similar in formulation to Rodinal and lasts a very long time even in partially filled bottles. Dilution for film is 1+49 and for paper is 1+11. I posted the formula at least once on APUG.

Before that I was fond of the New Winchester formula. It produced good blacks and lasted quite well in the tray.

New Winchester Paper Developer

Distilled water (50°C) …………………………………………… 750 ml
Metol ………………………………………………………………………………………… 3.5 g
Sodium sulfite (anhy) ……………………………………………… 35.0 g
Hydroquinone ……………………………………………………………………… 8.6 g
Potassium bromide ………………………………………………………… 1.9 g
Boric acid …………………………………………………………………………… 1.0 g
Benzotriazole, 1% ………………………………………………………… 7.5 ml
Sodium carbonate, (mono) ……………………………………… 75.0 g
Distilled water to make ………………………………………… 1.0 l

Usage

Dilute 1+2 with water. Development time is 1½ to 2½ minutes at 20°C.
Useful capacity is 20 8x10 prints per liter of working strength developer.

O. T. Croy, The Complete Art of Printing and Enlarging, Focal Press (London:1959), p 237.

FWIW, I found a bottle of Dektol I mixed from power in Dec 2014. It was a quart bottle and full (when I mix a gallon, I decant into 1 qt bottles). I was going to toss it but thought I'd give it a try. To my somewhat surprise, the liquid wasn't brown and it seemed to work just fine (although I did use it 1:1 instead of 1:2).

I'm not recommending the use of 2 year old mixed Dektol, but at $11 for powder that ultimately gives you 3 gal of working solution, you can afford to waste that last quart of stock solution.