Long streak between frames

[Dani]

I got this weird streak between two frames. I'm using a Jobo and a 2523 tank, with two 120 rolls side by side in the same reel. This streak happened on the second loaded roll. Second to last frame, which means that it was right in the middle of the reel fully submerged in developer.
I'm using fresh developer and I'm reusing my bleach and fixer, so far they have 8 rolls in them.

The streak is on the negative itself. I tried to take a picture but it's hard to have it show, but it's there, you can see it easily and it comes from the edge of the negative.

I washed the tank and reel with a 50/50 household bleach and water and rinsed both very well just a couple of days ago. Other than that I'm out of ideas.

 

[glbeas]

It does look like a drop of liquid rolled across the emulsion just before you processed it. Seeing how it made a lighter streak whatever it was accelerated the development slightly. Possibly a drop of water or developer got on it.

 

[Dani]

This time I only did pre-warm and no pre-wash and I didn't use stop bath. I was going by the recommendations found here http://www.tmax100.com/photo/pdf/jobo41.pdf

I'll quote from the pdf

"The following conclusions can be inferred from the tests:

1) Pre-wet of the film introduces unpredictable variations.
2) Acid stop bath introduces unpredictable variations.
3) Rinse (using water instead of acid stop) after the developer introduces unpredictable variations.

It should be noted that Kodak says that the introduction of any step between the developer and the bleach in their chemistry does not allow the bleach step to work properly. The carry-forward of residual developer creates the proper pH condition for the bleach."

I'm using Bleach III, which I read you can use stop bath since it's less acidic than the other bleach but I'm just confused now.

It could have been from pouring that a drop went in there first.

 

[Rudeofus]

It should be noted that Kodak says that the introduction of any step between the developer and the bleach in their chemistry does not allow the bleach step to work properly. The carry-forward of residual developer creates the proper pH condition for the bleach."

Ferric EDTA/PDTA becomes stronger if you lower pH, until just before EDTA/PDTA free acid starts falling out, therefore I don't really understand how alkaline fixer would set proper conditions for bleach. The person writing this article claims lots of experience and direct interaction with Kodak, yet his claims sound quite strange to me. Note, that the author claims overall density increases, nowhere did I read about streaks.

About your initial problem with the streak: If you look at the C-41 kit instructions, you will see that a few dozen extra seconds in CD mean a lot more development. How quickly did your switch from CD to bleach go? Any chance there was some pause, giving a thick droplet a chance to develop some more for 10-20 seconds? Pouring CD from film tanks takes time, and if you do it too slowly and carefully, there's a non-trivial chance that you do more harm than good.

PS: Bleach III runs at quite low pH so it definitely works as stop bath. It's also quite dilute compared to older Ferric EDTA based bleaches, therefore it may not be such a great buffer. Was this bleach heavily used by any chance?

 

[Dani]

I should have mentioned that I read people complaining about those streaks and others suggesting that a pre wash would cure the issue.

Thank you for the reply! There’s a lot to think about there and consider for next time.
As far as how fast did I switch to bleach, I definitely think that not fast enough. I actually remember fumbling with the bottle of bleach.

The bleach had 6 rolls of 120 in it before I used it for those two rolls. Quick question so you’d recommend using a stop bath when using Bleach III?

 

[Rudeofus]

It doesn't matter whether you use a stop bath or go to Bleach III right away, you have to do it quickly, i.e. in less than 10 seconds. A bit of carry over developer is not a problem, so don't waste time pouring out the very last drop of CD, and have your bleach bottle/jug ready before you pour out the CD. The bleach was most likely in good shape after 6 rolls, assuming you had at least 1/2 liters of bleach.

While a stop bath is theoretically not necessary if you use Bleach III, here are some points why it might be a good idea nonetheless:

• Bleaching action raises the pH of Ferric EDTA/PDTA based bleaches. Higher pH leads to reduced bleach activity. Therefore carryover acid from stop bath is much more helpful than carryover alkali from CD
• Stop bath is ridiculously cheap compared to Bleach III. Therefore a gain in bleach longevity is worth a lot of stop bath.
• If bleach is no longer acidic, it may oxidize the CD and cause fogging streaks. People have had this with 120 format roll film and Tetenal's BLIX. BLIX has to operate at pH 6.5, so the problem is amplified there.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Which film? Which developer? Both Kodak and Jobo strongly advise against prewetting with Tri-X 400.

 

[Rudeofus]

It's obviously Portra 400 (see third pic), and most C-41 CDs are interchangeable.

 

[Dani]

It doesn't matter whether you use a stop bath or go to Bleach III right away, you have to do it quickly, i.e. in less than 10 seconds. A bit of carry over developer is not a problem, so don't waste time pouring out the very last drop of CD, and have your bleach bottle/jug ready before you pour out the CD. The bleach was most likely in good shape after 6 rolls, assuming you had at least 1/2 liters of bleach.

While a stop bath is theoretically not necessary if you use Bleach III, here are some points why it might be a good idea nonetheless:

• Bleaching action raises the pH of Ferric EDTA/PDTA based bleaches. Higher pH leads to reduced bleach activity. Therefore carryover acid from stop bath is much more helpful than carryover alkali from CD
• Stop bath is ridiculously cheap compared to Bleach III. Therefore a gain in bleach longevity is worth a lot of stop bath.
• If bleach is no longer acidic, it may oxidize the CD and cause fogging streaks. People have had this with 120 format roll film and Tetenal's BLIX. BLIX has to operate at pH 6.5, so the problem is amplified there.

Oh what an aha! moment... that's what I was doing, I was wasting time pouring out the very last drop of color developer and waiting too long to pour the bleach. I had 300ml of bleach that I've been using for those 6 rolls.
Thank you for the points and the inside into the workflow, that was really helpful!