Long lasting paper developer

Eric Mac

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Are there any paper developers with a long shelf life (like HC110 or Rodinal for film) on the market? I develop film fairly regularly, but only get into the darkroom every two or three months.

Thanks
Eric
 

removed account4

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hi there eric

you might look into ansco 130 ( or as the photographers formulary calls it 130 universal paper developer ) it has a huge shelf life both in stock solution and mixed. you can leave it in an open tray for something like 30 days and it will work when you go back

have fun!
john
 

titrisol

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Ethol LPD
I used a 19 months old batch I had and worked like a charm.

Mix the 1 gallon from powder and "break" into many 500ml bottles filled to the brim and tightly capped. They can last a loong time.
And LPD lasts also g laong time in the tray
 

PhotoJim

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Ansco 130 has a very long life, I agree. As a working solution it might be the longest-lived of all developers.

I have had good luck with Ilford Multigrade too but the working solution won't even keep a day. Put the stock solution into smaller full bottles and it will keep even longer.

Or you can make developer from scratch powdered ingredients. Make it up the day before you print (it'll keep for weeks anyway), and make only what you need. The powders last for years with reasonable storage.
 

Tom Hoskinson

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Eric Mac said:
Are there any paper developers with a long shelf life (like HC110 or Rodinal for film) on the market? I develop film fairly regularly, but only get into the darkroom every two or three months.

Thanks
Eric
Click to expand...

I have been using my own concentrated version of Ilford ID-78 Warmtone Print Developer with excellent results. The standard formula for ID-78 is given here:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I split the formula into a Part A stock solution and a Part B stock solution. My Part A Stock is very stable and I expect it to last for years.


Ilford ID-78 Part A Concentrate
200ml Propylene Glycol at 140 degrees F
Hydroquinone 12.00 g
Phenidone 0.50 g



Ilford ID-78 Part B Concentrate
Water at 125 F 700ml
Sodium Sulphite, anhyd 50.00 g
Sodium Carbonate, anhyd 62.00 g
Potassium Bromide 4.5 g

Add Part A to Part B, mix, then add cool water to make 1.0 liter

The resulting working developer can be further diluted (1:1 or 1:3) - see the referenced APUG article.
 

avandesande

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ethol lpd

I also believe the dilute solution can be reused as long as you keep the air out of it.
 

jim appleyard

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HC-110 can be used for paper. See: http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/index.html

Interesting site, too bad Michael has gone to the darkside and will no longer show as much interest in the site. So much for loving a dev so much that you create a website/page for it.

Another vote for 130!

Rodinal can also be used, although you may have to play around with dilutions.
If I recall, there is is a warm-tone paper dev formula here on APUG that uses Rodinal.
 

Tom Hoskinson

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A tray of Ilford ID-78 will last for multiple working sessions.

Agfa Neutol WA is also a Phenidone/Hydroquinone developer with properties that are similar to those of Ilford ID-78.
 

Tom Hoskinson

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Yes: J W Shaw (Rodinal) Warmtone developer

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Another P-Aminophenol based Warmtone developer is:

Kodak Developer DK-93 Kodelon: For Films, Plates, and Papers

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
 

MurrayMinchin

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Is it the Glycin then, that makes Ansco 130 last so long?

Murray
 

john_s

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Tom Hoskinson said:
I have been using my own concentrated version of Ilford ID-78 Warmtone Print Developer with excellent results. .........
Click to expand...

Tom, have you tried to make it more concentrated? I have potassium carbonate which might enable the Part_B to be made more concentrated. Have you tried dissolving more of the developing agents in propylene glycol?
 

Tom Hoskinson

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John, both developing reagents (phenidone and hydroquinone) are dissolved in the glycol - and they could be present in a greater concentration than I chose to use.

I deliberately kept the carbonate and sulfite out of the A solution - These chemicals have low solublility in glycol - but they are very soluble in water.

I could have used an organic alkali like triethanolamine (TEA) instead of Sodium or Potassium Carbonate - but then I would still need sulfite (to prevent staining) and it has low solubility in TEA. All-in-all it is easier to mix it as two stock solutions.
 

dancqu

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Eric Mac said:
Are there any paper developers with a long shelf
life (like HC110 or Rodinal for film) ... ?
I develop film fairly regularly, but ... Eric
Click to expand...

All good film developers will make good print
developers. Or at least, I wouldn't be surprised.
I've tested a few. Even D-23, which is about as far
from being a print developer as one might think
possible, does a nice job.

There is a lot of chemistry for development in
film developers. Concentration is not so much the
matter as is activity. Out of the bottle, film developers
are compounded to be slow working. The trick is to further
activate by the addition of sodium carbonate. Pick any film
developer you chose then test it as a print developer with
varying amounts of sodium carbonate.

Compound small amounts and test using minimal solution
volumes. I've just completed a first phase of combined
contrast control developer, bromide, wash aid, wash
scenario testing using 5 x 7 FB with 125ml solution
volumes. For myself one-shot diluted chemistry
requires three minute processing. Dan
 

srs5694

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I've been using DS-14, which is a mix-it-yourself PC developer. I use it with the replenisher (which is the developer minus potassium bromide): When I'm done with a printing session, I pour the developer back into the bottle, then top up with the replenisher. I mixed my current batch almost three months ago and it's still going strong. AFAIK, it's not available commercially, but Ryuji Suzuki (who created the formula) has been dropping hints on this forum that this might change.
 

Photo Engineer

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Film developers with high solvent levels such as D76 will cause a loss in speed and other problems when used with papers.

The high solvent action actually acts as a fix and you end up with a near monobath solution. Not very good!

PE
 

nworth

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One way to get long lasting stock solutions of paper developer is to split the solution and keep the alkali separate. Formulary BW65 is an example. Treated this way, the stock solutions last up to a year or more. The general idea is to mix all the ingredients except for the alkali (usually sodium carbonate) and then add enough sodium metabisulfite to make the solution slightly acid. This becomes stock solution A. Stock solution B is the alkali. Enough additional alkali must be added to the final solution to bring the pH up to its normal value.
 

Papa Tango

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Use one or before...

Now I'm really confused, which is not very unusual... I am about to embark on a 130 adventure, having bought the PF kit. I have concluded that if I like it, the chemicals will simply be bought in bulk. This ensures fresh chemistry and by buying bulk chemistry for other formulas I like, will build over time a functional "chemical supply closet" for the preparation of many different mixes. This was the way it was when I started an aeon ago, and had access to the chemical lab storeroom...

My confusion is this; PF states that one does not want to order Glycin in quantities greater than will be consumed in about 6 months. Is this stuff more stable in stock solution than in raw, dry form? Devious minds want to know by ordering time....
 

Phillip P. Dimor

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I can't answer your Glycin question, although perhaps Mr. Gainer could answer this.
Maybe ethylene glycol is your answer? I've no idea..

I swear by Ethol LPD but you've probably decided on Ansco 130 by now. I've never used Ansco 130, but the selling point for LPD was 1) price 2) availability and 3) conveinence.

*shrug* I print once a month sometimes, and i've reused developer for months on end. If you mix it at 1:1 you can replenish it too. Ah well.
 

Tom Hoskinson

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Pragmatist said:
My confusion is this; PF states that one does not want to order Glycin in quantities greater than will be consumed in about 6 months. Is this stuff more stable in stock solution than in raw, dry form? Devious minds want to know by ordering time....
Click to expand...

The answer is yes. For example: Glycin keeps well when made up as Ansco 130. I also have some Glycin that I dissolved in triethanolamine about a year ago (I need to check and see if it is still active).

Do an APUG search for Pat Gainer's posts on this subject.
 

dancqu

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nworth said:
One way to get long lasting stock solutions of
paper developer is to split the solution and
keep the alkali separate.
Click to expand...

And keep it that way when in trays. Larry Of Main's way.
Larry's two bath print developing technique is one I keep
in mind. I've a two bath in mind where a second alkaline,
as with Larry's, serves rather than water for adjusting
a paper's gradient. I process paper one-shot so I
might just get away with it.

One-shot two-bath print developing. A new wrinkle. Dan
 

JBrunner

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130 has a great lifespan, and for my money, it's as close to Amidol as can be, without being Amidol, easy to mix, and so offers much, with few drawbacks.
Its my favorite developer of all, so far. (yes, I know its Glycin)
 

Ian Grant

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As Tom says ID-78 is an amazingly good developer. My commercial developer of choice is Liquid Neutol WA, Agfa made a powder version alongside, that was Metol based instead of Phenidone.

The Ilford ID78 has far better tray life than either Agfa Neutol WA product. Take care to ensure you have the correct formulae as for years most US publications have been incorrect, the level of Potassium Bromide being wrong, it should be 4.5 gms per litre.

Should add that US websites like Silvergrain.org have the wrong formulae

Ian
 
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