Local bleaching of prints

DrPablo · Mar 28, 2007

I am trying to figure out how to bleach a small area of a print. There is an area of clouds in one of my prints that just seems too dark and out of place.

I have some potassium ferricyanide salt from the Photographer's Formulary cyanotype kit. I could mix that up. But then I need to figure out what strength to use.

At that point, as I understand it, I could paint it lightly on the area in question after it is fixed, right?

I also have the liquid cyanotype kit with solutions A and B -- is one of those potassium ferricyanide?

brian steinberger · Mar 28, 2007

Paul,

If you have potassium ferricyanide, that is all you really need. Actual farmers reducer also has potassium bromide as well. But it's ok. I usually take 6oz of warm water (while the print is still in the fixer, or in a water holding bath) and add 1/4 of a teaspoon of potassium ferricyanide to solution and stir. Then I test the strength of the bleach on a test print. If too weak, I'll add just a tad more potassium ferricyanide.

Tips for bleaching: Blow off the areas (yes, with your mouth) that you're going to bleach before bleaching, this stops the bleach from running into other areas. Other squeegee their prints. Have running water ready to stop bleaching as soon as you see a change, or quickly re-immerse in fixer. Be careful not to go too far, cause you can't reverse the process once you've gone too far.

In the case of the clouds in your print, once you've found a strength of bleach that you like, I'd use a cotton ball to apply the bleach to an area like a cloud.

Good luck and keep us updated on the results!

Brian

phritz phantom · Mar 28, 2007

one caveat:
pot.ferricyanide works faster (or at least the effects are visible faster) in light areas of the print than in the dark areas. --therefor: increases local contrast.

bleaching a light area in front of a dark background is usually very easy to to. but lightening an dark area before a light background can be very tricky; one has to be super-careful not to spill any of the pot.ferri solution on the light area, because it would be visible instantly.

DrPablo · Mar 28, 2007

That's very helpful, thanks a lot for your help.

I could pick up some Farmer's Reducer, they have it on the shelf at Calumet here. How would that differ in terms of the local contrast effect?

eclarke · Mar 28, 2007

I use a selection of Chinese calligraphy brushes and have a little hose with running water going. As I bleach the area, I apply water to the area below to keep the bleach from running. Use the running water to stop the bleaching action..it can go fast. This is the Bruce Barnbaum method, he is a master of local bleaching...EC

Mick Fagan · Mar 28, 2007

I do everything that EC does, but I place the print onto a sheet of glass and lean it on the sink wall at about 60 degree angle, that way the print is stable and you have no problems with the print being strained or even damaged, by being handled continuously by gloved hands.

Mick.

climbabout · Mar 28, 2007

Another vote for Mick and EC's method - I do the same - works well with the hose running under.
Tim

KenM · Mar 28, 2007

Hey Evan, where'd you learn that technique?

Mix the bleach until you get a (no kidding) weak pee color. It's better to have a slower working bleach, since it's much easier to control.

When the print comes out of the fix, rinse off the print, then squeegee it. Rinsing the fix off will help soften the edge where you're bleaching. If you don't rinse the fix off, the bleach can work too fast, which will leave a sharp edge. In other words, you'll be able to see where you've bleached.

I've never used cotton balls - I always use brushes, and place the print on a PVC sheet mounted on a stand in my sink. Light above, hose with running water handy. I always run water over the area directly below the area where I'm bleaching to prevent any 'bleach over'.

It was alluded to above, but I change the orientation of the print on the board so that a dark area is always below the area I'm bleaching (if possible). Then, if a bit of bleach runs off the area being bleached into a dark area, you won't see it since it takes much longer to affect a dark area.

Once you've bleached for a bit, return the print to the fix to neutralize the bleach. Then repeat the above steps until you're done. Generally speaking, it will take multiple applications - you don't want to throw the long bomb on the first play, since chances are, you'll bleach too far and ruin the print.

It's also important to understand that fix will accelerate the bleaching process - this is why you have to rinse the print off first - so you can control the process. However, it also means that when you return the print to the fix to stop the process, it can cause the bleaching process to proceed past the point where you bleached to. This is why you never bleach until it's 'right' - bleach a bit, return to the fix, and iterate. In effect, you want to 'sneak up' on it.

It can be a scary technique when you're bleaching a print that requires a bunch of manipulations under the enlarger, but once you've done it a few times, you'll have another valuable tool in your toolbox.

I learned this technique from Bruce Barnbaum - if you pick up his How-To book, a full description of how he bleaches is contained therein, along with a lot of other very useful information.

Good luck!

Ed Sukach · Mar 28, 2007

Shouldn't the print be re-fixed after the bleaching?

User Removed · Mar 28, 2007

Ed Sukach said:
Shouldn't the print be re-fixed after the bleaching?

I'm suprised no one has said that yet. Yes...the print should be re-fixed after bleaching.

I use about 30ml of water in a little plastic cup. I put "a pinch" of pot. fero in it to start. If it's working to slow, I will increase it slightly.

The print is placed on a sheet of glass sitting upright in my sink. I use the hose and keep the water running dirrectly BELOW where I'm painting on the bleach to avoid any dripping. I also never let the bleach sit on one area for longer then a few seconds, as I find it will start to stain that area a color. This color is usually removed when re-fixed, but not always. If your doing alot of fixing on one image, I will often return to the fixer several times while bleaching.

Some papers bleach better then others. I'm using Kodak AZO and find it responds VERY well with no color stain. However, I've experimented with Ilford and a few other papers and had terrible results.

Good luck! This has been one of my secret tools in the darkroom for the past few years.

Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net

eclarke · Mar 28, 2007

Mick Fagan said:
I do everything that EC does, but I place the print onto a sheet of glass and lean it on the sink wall at about 60 degree angle, that way the print is stable and you have no problems with the print being strained or even damaged, by being handled continuously by gloved hands.

Mick.

I'm old and senile..I put mine vertically on a sheet of white acrylic and have some backlight so I can see what is going on. I also keep a good squeegee available to wipe it and see what is happening..EC

KenM · Mar 28, 2007

Ed Sukach said:
Shouldn't the print be re-fixed after the bleaching?

Re-read my message. It's in there.

KenM · Mar 28, 2007

eclarke said:
I'm old and senile..

No argument here - Gramps.

eclarke · Mar 28, 2007

"I learned this technique from Bruce Barnbaum - if you pick up his How-To book, a full description of how he bleaches is contained therein, along with a lot of other very useful information.

Good luck!
__________________
Cheers!

-klm. "

This book is a Must Have book...EC

jovo · Mar 28, 2007

Hmmmm.....I'm surprised that Ryan has gotten poor results with Ilford papers. I've always had success bleaching MGIV FB. Although it responds slowly to a weak solution, it can indeed get away from you if you're not vigilant, but I've never experienced a stain. Do your local bleaching before toning, though, because staining is much more likely after toning unless the print has been very thoroughly washed.

I use a clear plexi cutting board to work on in the sink with a hose of running water just below the site I'm bleaching. I first dip a Q-tip in fixer, and then the other end in the bleach and paint it on, washing it all off frequently to check results and then, if needed, repeat the above until I'm happy with it.

DrPablo · Mar 28, 2007

All great advice. I may use a Q-tip, plus a spray bottle with water.

Now in the case of this particular print, in which I want to lighten a dark area so that it's more uniform with the background, would Farmer's Reducer be better than potassium ferricyanide alone?

david b · Mar 28, 2007

Get a copy of Bruce Barnbaums book "the art of photography".

there is a section about bleaching and I think it's a good book to have around.

KenM · Mar 28, 2007

jovo said:
Hmmmm.....I'm surprised that Ryan has gotten poor results with Ilford papers. I've always had success bleaching MGIV FB. Although it responds slowly to a weak solution, it can indeed get away from you if you're not vigilant, but I've never experienced a stain. Do your local bleaching before toning, though, because staining is much more likely after toning unless the print has been very thoroughly washed.

What Ilford paper John? In the past, I tried bleaching Ilford multigrade (not the warmtone), and didn't have much success. Don Kirby successfully bleaches Ilford paper, but he mixes some fix with the bleach - this of course shortens the life of the bleach, so you have to remix some bleach after about 15 minutes.

I'm interested, since my supply of Forte is running out, and eventually, I'll have to migrate to another paper. I haven't tried Kentmere FB, but I hear that is can be bleached...

I will say, I've seen some very interesting effects from bleaching after selenium toning - the bleached area takes on a warmer yellowish tone (on Forte, anyway) , which when used correctly, can lend an almost hand-colored look to a BW print. I haven't tried it, but still - interesting to know.

jovo · Mar 28, 2007

KenM said:
What Ilford paper John? In the past, I tried bleaching Ilford multigrade (not the warmtone), and didn't have much success. Don Kirby successfully bleaches Ilford paper, but he mixes some fix with the bleach - this of course shortens the life of the bleach, so you have to remix some bleach after about 15 minutes.

Ken, as I wrote above, I dip the Q-tip in fix, rub it on the to-be-bleached area, and then use the other end of the tip which is loaded with bleach. The two never mix except on the paper so I can keep the bleach going forever. (Actually, I bought a bottle of the stuff from PF, mixed up a batch from a little bit of the dry powder, stored that solution in a brown glass bottle and haven't finished that first batch to this day....after two years of not infrequent use. Barnbaum also states that it lasts forever if I recall correctly.)

As to the paper, as also stated above, it's MGIV FB glossy.

KenM · Mar 28, 2007

jovo said:
Ken, as I wrote above, I dip the Q-tip in fix, rub it on the to-be-bleached area, and then use the other end of the tip which is loaded with bleach. The two never mix except on the paper so I can keep the bleach going forever. (Actually, I bought a bottle of the stuff from PF, mixed up a batch from a little bit of the dry powder, stored that solution in a brown glass bottle and haven't finished that first batch to this day....after two years of not infrequent use. Barnbaum also states that it lasts forever if I recall correctly.)

As to the paper, as also stated above, it's MGIV FB glossy.

Interesting, thanks. That's a neat technique.

I mentioned in my note above that I rinse the print after pulling it from the fix. With Forte this works really well. I wonder if I avoided the rinse it would bleach easier? Probably, but I would have to be more careful with the bleach...

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, I guess.

phritz phantom · Mar 28, 2007

KenM said:
I learned this technique from Bruce Barnbaum - if you pick up his How-To book, a full description of how he bleaches is contained therein, along with a lot of other very useful information.

Good luck!

btw. is it known which paper barnbaum uses?

KenM · Mar 28, 2007

Forte PG V. He's not happy, for obvious reasons.

patrickjames · Mar 28, 2007

I have used iodine before to get fid of black dots or diluted over a larger area (don't worry the stain disappears in the fix). It is a rather powerful bleach though so be warned. You could also use a cupric sulfate bleach, as well as the others mentioned, but I personally don't have any experience with that one. I thought I would mention the iodine because it is readily available at almost any drug store.

If you overdo it with any bleach (except the fix containing bleaches) simply put the print back in the developer and start over.

Patrick

User Removed · Mar 28, 2007

You don't want to tone before bleaching your prints.

I believe that even Bruce says that Ilford MG does not bleach very well and stains easy. Like I said, I only print on AZO which bleaches fine, and the one time I experimented with Ilford...it stained easy.

I use a set of the japanese Hack brushes, in very small sizes.

Rich Ullsmith · Mar 28, 2007

Cupric sulfate is great for complete bleaching and redevelopment, but I can never get it as even as ferricyanide for local or partial bleaching.

That's a good point about redevelopment: I don't know why a person would use a bleach without a halide in it, so if it goes too far you can always bring it back.

Local bleaching of prints

DrPablo

brian steinberger

phritz phantom

DrPablo

eclarke

Mick Fagan

climbabout

KenM

Ed Sukach

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eclarke

KenM

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eclarke

jovo

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Local bleaching of prints

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