Loading long frozen 120

TexasRancher · Dec 15, 2014

Hello,
I've been out of the life for about 10 years but have a good supply of FP4 120. It has been in the roll so long it is curly and extremely hard to load. Any ideas about how to relax it prior to loading?
charlie

Rick A · Dec 15, 2014

How long has it been at room temp? Could be you just have to live with it like that.

bsdunek · Dec 15, 2014

My Brother gave me more than 100 rolls of FP4 (not +, so it's old). Have the same problem. I have found two methods that seem to help. One is to unroll the film and re-roll backwords, put in a light tight container, and leave for a few days. The other is to roll it on the reel backwards, that is, emulsion side out. The second is what I use, as when I'm ready to develop, I'm ready to develop, not wait a few days.
It's a pain, but 100 free rolls that have been kept in the freezer, and don't seem to have any noticeable fogging - worth using. Tell that to the guys that don't think you can keep film that long, and this was in Hawaii!

Xmas · Dec 15, 2014

Remove from box and inner wrap and leave for 48 hours at ambient.

Then unwind in dark room to check that film emulsion side is not stuck to paper.

If it is ok load wind up and load into camera.

I've never managed to do better.

Mono is ok at 5C in fridge in ziplock with fresh silicagel . Doing different is risky.

cliveh · Dec 15, 2014

Don't freeze FP4 in the first place and you wont have the problem.

Sirius Glass · Dec 15, 2014

cliveh said:
Don't freeze FP4 in the first place and you wont have the problem.

I completely disagree. I have been freezing film for years and never had a problem.

Let it thaw out for a day. Crank slowly so that there is no static discharge when you first load the film.

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 15, 2014

I'm confused here. Loading into the camera or in spools for developing?

If the former why is curling a problem? You load with the paper leader, that does not curl. If the latter then it's already defrosted of course so how would defrosting help here?

cliveh · Dec 15, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
I completely disagree. I have been freezing film for years and never had a problem.

Let it thaw out for a day. Crank slowly so that there is no static discharge when you first load the film.

And I have not been freezing black & white film for years and never had a problem.

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 15, 2014

cliveh said:
And I have not been freezing black & white film for years and never had a problem.

We have our control!

pentaxuser · Dec 15, 2014

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
I'm confused here. Loading into the camera or in spools for developing?

If the former why is curling a problem? You load with the paper leader, that does not curl. If the latter then it's already defrosted of course so how would defrosting help here?

Me too to an extent but the way it is written it seem to be loading to the camera. I have never had this issue but haven't got 10 year old frozen 120. However isn't there a piece of tape across the whole front that prevents this from curling and once this is on the spool won't the rest follow even if edge tends to curl or can the curl be so bad after a few inches that it cannot do other than fold in on itself while being wound on the spool?

pentaxuser

TexasRancher · Dec 15, 2014

loading to process

I'm having problem loading in into either nikor or paterson reels. It's just too curl

pentaxuser · Dec 15, 2014

Thanks for that. It was the use of "long frozen" that led me to think it was a camera loading problem. However other than the other suggestions I have nothing to add except to ask: Can you use your fingers to try and keep the film relatively rigid and straight at the edges of the reel so it can be pushed into the reel.

If all else fails then you might need to get a Durst tank which winds the film into the middle via a loader Once you get the film under the middle spring of the reel a winder does the rest.

pentaxuser

Rick A · Dec 15, 2014

Unspool the film but don't load onto a reel, let it relax in the tank for a couple of days. Check to see if it loads easier after a couple of days. You may even try winding it emulsion side out onto something and store in the daylight tank that way. I shot some 35 year old Tri-X 220 that was a bugger to load, but let it relax in a tank for about a week and it finally loaded [easier].

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 15, 2014

I'd often have trouble with tightly curled film. I went all Hewes reels and rarely have issues now. Not that it cannot be done with other reels but Hewes are the best and easiest in my book. For SS reels anyway. Not cheap but worth every penny.

Sirius Glass · Dec 15, 2014

cliveh said:
And I have not been freezing black & white film for years and never had a problem.

Great so your film expires. Congratulations. Please take a bow.

Sirius Glass · Dec 15, 2014

I have not had a problem loading a reel because of too much film curl. However I had a roll of film that was left in a Hasselblad back for five years and that one was a PITA to load, but it did load.

Xmas · Dec 15, 2014

It should load into a spiral from other end?

randyB · Dec 15, 2014

Every once in a while I have this problem. I usually reverse curl the first couple inches of film and nip the corners so it will glide thru the paterson reel.

Arklatexian · Dec 15, 2014

TexasRancher said:
I'm having problem loading in into either nikor or paterson reels. It's just too curl

I have never used paterson reels and I do have a question about loading your Nikor reels. Do you load from the center out or start on the outside and try to slide the film toward the center? For me, trying to load a Nikor from the outside is bad for the reel. For some reason it seems to get bent when it hits the wall on the other side of the darkroom. A completely dark room is no place to become frustrated.......Regards

pdeeh · Dec 16, 2014

Rick A said:
You may even try winding it emulsion side out onto something and store in the daylight tank that way.

This has worked well for me.

I have recently been shooting some ancient nitrate stock in 120 that has been rolled tight for 70+ years and comes off the spool like three feet of spring steel - quite impossible for me to load onto a Paterson spiral.

Once I've shot the roll I (in the darkroom or a dark bag of course) re-roll it emulsion side out, without removing it from its backing paper, securing it with an elastic band and then leave it for two or three days in a daylight tank. Done with care, the risk of scratches is small.

This "relaxes" it sufficiently to enable me to get it started & loaded more easily.

It can also help to skip a frame at the beginning and end of the roll - gives you something to handle without fear of fingermarks on the emulsion side, and also allows you to trim the very ends (which alway seem to have the most vicious curl)

I'm a plastic Paterson man, but would it be easier to load stainless reels with very curly film?

Simon R Galley · Dec 16, 2014

Dear Texas Rancher,

Firstly, I hope it all works :

After 10 years the film will have 'memory curl' the base will be almost impossible to 'de-curl'.

With a bit of patience you should be able to load it, but practically someone commercially processing should have a dip and dunk machine ( they don't all use D&D so check ) where the 120 film is just weighted and dropped in the tank from a bar ( no loading ) may cost you a few bucks, but cheaper than buying new film... and will save you a few dollars in the swear box as well.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

MattKing · Dec 16, 2014

I recently processed a roll of 616 film that had a process before date in the 1940s.

You think you had a problem with curl .....

tokam · Dec 17, 2014

An exposed test length of 35mm Fuji Neopan SS from 1968 loaded onto Patterson reels without any drama for me recently.

I hung the film up to dry and the next morning I had a 20 inch tube of film about as thick as a chop stick. I was afraid that I would fracture the film in my attempts to uncurl and flatten the tube. The scanned results looked very ugly. High base fog and pinprick holes in the emulsion. My remaining 45 yo film cartridges from Japan will now be used as display items only.

TexasRancher · Dec 18, 2014

success finally

Thanks all for the input.
I tried the two day rest in a tank method with a twist. I took the film end that had been taped to the paper roll. Then bent back the very end where the tape had been. This straightened out enough of the end to get to load into a Paterson reel. Although it worked, I have a few rolls I exposed long enough ago so I don't remember what it is so it will be good for practice.
Now let's process and check for fog.

Loading long frozen 120

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