Loading Jobo 120 reels

john taylor · Oct 6, 2007

Hi All,

Couldn't find the specific answer here, so guess I'll pose the question.

I'm wanting to try the Jobo for 120 film development but am stuck at loading the reels. I'm comfortable with loading 120 on stainless reels (not for the Jobo), but the plastic ones have me baffled. I've followed the usual instructions, trying to walk the film on with a back and forth partial rotation motion. I can even push a single roll all the way on. However, every time I try the walking motion -- whether starting the roll or trying to get it past the red clip to make room for a second roll -- it just backs the film off the reel. I'm doing this with scrap developed film in daylight, but I can't see any obvious hangup. I wonder if the curl of the film is "dragging its feet" and giving just enough resistance to forward motion. Seems like that would apply to keep it from backing off as well though. Seems like that curl is a given and was likely accounted for in the reel design.

Same result with 5 different reels marked 04 066 and one 04 046 reel. Same film used each time. Will undeveloped film act differently?

What's going on? Anyone else with similar experience?

John

Nick Zentena · Oct 6, 2007

I'm more used to the 2500 type reels but I think the 1500 are basically the same. Are you using your thumb? Basically the thumb needs to hold the film when you rotate the reel.

Fotohuis · Oct 6, 2007

I am using Jobo reels exclusivly for years and years and also for 2x 120 roll films with the Jobo clip on one 1501 reel in the 1520 tank (minimum 485ml, practical 500ml content).

Normally not a problem unless you have a film with excessive curl. In that case I put the film on a second reel with a seperate tank. I am able to load under normal conditions 2 pieces of 120 roll films within two minutes on one reel. It should go on the easy way and if not, forcing a film on a reel will always damage your roll film so that's ALWAYS out of the question.

Check the thing out with a regular roll film and be sure you can handle the whole procedure in the dark. That's the only and valid recommendation I can give to you. And yes, you have to load/push with your thumbs.

Best regards,

Robert

john taylor · Oct 6, 2007

What a marvelous invention a thumb is! Worked like a charm. Thanks for the help.

John

Ed Sukach · Oct 6, 2007

john taylor said:
... However, every time I try the walking motion -- whether starting the roll or trying to get it past the red clip to make room for a second roll -- it just backs the film off the reel.

Get past the "red clip" - ???

You DO pull the little red "stop" up and out of the way when loading the first film , load all the way to the center spool... and push it back in to limit the travel of the second film, don't you?

Matthew Gorringe · Oct 6, 2007

I use a darkbag with Jobo 1501 reels and sometimes have trouble loading two films on one reel. Condensation is the culprit, if it's a hot day perspiration inside the bag is enough to make the film slightly sticky.

Now I try to load film in the evenings and also cut a tiny little bit off each leading corner with a pair of nail scissors right before loading. Doing these two things together I almost always get 2 films on the one reel.

Fotohuis · Oct 7, 2007

Getting two 120 roll films on one reel in a darkbag can be really a pain in the ass due to condensation in the bag. A plastic reel has to be dry, otherwise you're running into troubles.

The red clip is indeed to prevent that the second film is passing the obstacle. Two 120 roll films are fitting exactly on one Jobo 1501 (but also 2501) reel.
The advantage of the 1500 system is especially on regular tumble development: 1510 tank, 250ml (1x 135-36), 1520 tank 500ml (even 485ml to be more precisely, 2x 135-36 or 2x 120 roll film).
I am doing this with the automatic developing system from Heiland, the TAS:

http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/TAS_Flyer_D.pdf

Best regards,

Robert

john taylor · Oct 7, 2007

red stop

Ed Sukach said:
Get past the "red clip" - ???

You DO pull the little red "stop" up and out of the way when loading the first film , load all the way to the center spool... and push it back in to limit the travel of the second film, don't you?

Yes I do.

Chazzy · Oct 9, 2007

I've recently begun using the Jobo reels, and I'm finding that 220 is harder to load onto the reel than 120. The first half seems to go okay, but then there seems to be more resistance, and I'm not sure whether I need to force it a little to overcome the friction. Maybe I will feel more confident after I get more experience with the feel of it. When the film hangs up and doesn't want to budge, is the correct course of action to back it out a little and try again? I've tried that, and the situation just seems to repeat itself any number of times. Incidentally, I'm using perfectly dry reels, so that's not the problem.

Ed Sukach · Oct 9, 2007

One thing I might suggest is to NOT apply "inward" pressure to the reel flanges while loading. At times. when the film seems to "stub" in the circular tracks, more effort is apppied to make it "go" and it is very easy to press inward without being aware of the pressure.

Try - gently - VERY gently - the opposite - pulling the flanges a tiny bit outward.

Other than that, practicing loading with a sacrificed roll of film, and your eyes closed is useful. I did that, while sitting in front of the TV, until my wife snapped and nearly did me in with a butcher knife.

It is rare, now, to experience a mis-load.

Bob F. · Oct 9, 2007

In addition to your thumb, you can use your fingers. One section of the reel is reduced in width so that the film edges are just accessible. As you walk the reel, you hold the film edge with your finger alternately on each side to push the film along and stop it moving back as you twist the reel. This ( Dead Link Removed ) may be clearer...

Bob.

pentaxuser · Oct 9, 2007

I am not sure that dry reels are enough. I also use Jobo plastic reels and I previously had terrible problems with a 120 and lesser problems with 35mm. I previously had used wetting agent with the films still on the reels and despite using a toothbrush to clean the reels with hot water, the films still seemed to stick.

I then washed with washing up liquid and a toothbrush and last night loaded a 120 and it was easier although there was one spot that was sticky. It was overcome by withdrawal and re-feeding. I think that 120 film lacks the rigidity of 35mm and even a slight sticky spot gives the kind of problem that isn't easily overcome by pushing as the film simply bends.

I wish I had an easy answer but I think that unless the reel is very clean there is always a possibility of sticking.

At the end of the day 120 film just seems to present more problems of loading than 35mm and all you can do is try and keep the reels scrupulously clean.

Quite frankly if you find more than one sticky spot, I'd be inclined to unload the film and have a light tight box available into which it can be placed while you clean the reel and then start again. I spent almost two hours trying to load a 120 film on a sticky reel and had no choice but to continue as I hadn't taken the precaution of having a light tight box nearby.

If there is a simple secret of making 120 loading on plastic Jobo reels easy then I have yet to find it despite having read the posts here.

pentaxuser

Shelly Grimson · Oct 9, 2007

I found that with very curly film the answer is to let the film unwind by feeding it one hand into the other until you get to the taped end. I rip off the taped end from the spool and fold the tape back onto the film end. That gives me a nice firm film end to feed into the reel. Just make sure you disgard the paper backing not the film!
Now that you are all confused, good luck

Ed Sukach · Oct 10, 2007

pentaxuser said:
... I previously had used wetting agent with the films still on the reels and despite using a toothbrush to clean the reels with hot water, the films still seemed to stick.

I might suggest using toothpaste along with the hot water as a cleaning agent. The mild abrasive it contains works well.

Fotohuis · Oct 10, 2007

If a Jobo reel has loading problems, there is something wrong with your reel.

BTW you can always put the film in the tank and close it. Just put the achse on the top to make it light proof.

pentaxuser · Oct 10, 2007

Ed Sukach said:
I might suggest using toothpaste along with the hot water as a cleaning agent. The mild abrasive it contains works well.

Thanks Ed. If it worked for you then I'll give it a try.

pentaxuser

Fotohuis · Oct 10, 2007

Some adhesive rest on your reels from wetting agent can also cause a problem. Also silver rests on them can interfere especially with polyester films, smooth loading of your reel.

I am using dental cleaning tabs for cleaning my reel (no mechanical contact) and to remove silver, old blix (RA-4/C41). Chlorine is not advisable because the Jobo reel is getting brittle from it.
Warm water is no problem, hot water can cause damage on the polymer (plastic) reel. What I understand for hot water: 90-100 degrees C.
Warm water till 60 degrees C.

A lot of users are complaining about leaking Jobo tanks. One of the most common misuse is to put the tank away under pressure. Leave the tank open and when the red lid is going to leak you can warm it up (60 degrees C), put it on the tank and let cool it down. Then you're rescued for some other months. In fact you should replace the red lid. It's a common spare part by Jobo for a few Euro.
Seperate Jobo reels only (1501) can also be ordered seperately when it's damaged.
A junk reel for loading is really a pain in the ass. Throw it away, it's not worthwhile all the trouble.

pentaxuser · Oct 10, 2007

Fotohuis said:
If a Jobo reel has loading problems, there is something wrong with your reel.

BTW you can always put the film in the tank and close it. Just put the achse on the top to make it light proof.

Robert. I assume that your are saying that if all else fails and you can't load the film then you simply put it into the tank without the reel. It has certain attractions when you are desperate and have failed to load it after about two hours trying. However if you were to do this, you would need to wind the film around the tube which normally is in the centre of the reel, otherwise the tank isn't light tight, is it?

What's the achse? Is this the red top? It would make it light tight by itself but what about the problem of a light leak when filling the tank and then emptying and filling with stopor water and fixer?

Isn't there the further problem of the film naturally winding around itself so tightly that the developer wouldn't get to all the surface area?

If there are ways around these problems then I would be glad to hear of them just in case I get into trouble again when loading 120 film

Thanks

pentaxuser

Fotohuis · Oct 10, 2007

Yes, you need to fit in the tube (achse) otherwise the light trap is not working.

Of course you can not develop your film then, that's only possible when the film is on the reel but in the mean time you can search with light on another reel or system tank.

I don't have any problem to find them, because we are selling the Jobo tank system.

To keep the Jobo 1500 system 100% leak tight and easy for cleaning afterwards you need some vaseline on their moving parts. Vaseline will not affect any chemical interaction and it keeps the tank tight and smooth cleaning when disassembling the parts for cleaning under running tap water.

In this way you will also never have any problem with contamination. There is a nice instruction manual with each Jobo tank how to assemble/disassemble and cleaning them. Very important!
I think 50% of all users of tanks is finding the loading procedure the most difficult part in the whole developing procedure. A crappy developing reel or tank can be really a nightmare.
A pretty good investment is a 100% working developing tank.

Loading Jobo 120 reels

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