Loading in the dark?

largely · Jun 11, 2009

All of my MF cameras (Yashica and Voigtlander tlrs and RB67 ) require that you line up a start mark on the film backing with a mark in the camera or back before closing and winding on so that the camera knows where to stop for the first exposure.
How do you do this in the dark or in a changing bag when loading infrared?
I've searched but didn't find this addressed.
thanks for any help.

Larry

dpurdy · Jun 11, 2009

How about loading the film in a room that is so dark you can just see the marks? Does it have to be absolute black?

archphoto · Jun 11, 2009

I would load your camera's in subdued light.

Peter

ntenny · Jun 11, 2009

I've always loaded 120 IR film in subdued light, with acceptable results. There's sometimes fogging on the edges (outside the image area), but I'm not sure when it occurs---in any case it's never been a problem.

My understanding is that the reason you have to load 35mm IR in the dark is because of light piping through the film leader, which shouldn't be an issue with 120 because the "leader" is just backing paper.

-NT

Andrew Moxom · Jun 11, 2009

All I can say is that 120 IR Film like SFX, or Maco, need subdued light, but it depends on the type of IR film you are using. For something like Efke 820c which is the highest sensitivity IR based film there is outside of the old Kodak IR film, I would load in VERY low light levels. More importantly, an area with not much heat in it helps as well. Not all 120 film backing papers are totally IR safe either. YMMV.

As Nathan pointed out, 35mm IR film is a load and unload in total darkness arrangement only. You will also need to cover the little film ID window on the back of some slr's with a piece of foil and gaffa tape.

Christopher Walrath · Jun 11, 2009

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9000/4.6.0.167 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102 UP.Link/6.3.0.0.0)

Being careful with handling, I have never had a problem loading in open shade.

peterlat · Jun 11, 2009

For your next roll, load in subdued light, as suggested, and track the number of knob turns (or lever cranks) it takes to get the arrow to its mark. On the following roll, load in total darkness, using that estimate, then go a half turn more to be safe. You'll probably want to eliminate the last frame rather than gamble on missing part of the film area, but it should guarantee that there'll be no fogging on the first 11 (or 9).

Slixtiesix · Jun 11, 2009

If you like TLRs you should try a Rollei. They have a sensing mechanism that detects the beginning of the film. I always found this superfluous but in your case it would make sense.
Greetz, Benjamin

ntenny · Jun 11, 2009

Slixtiesix said:
If you like TLRs you should try a Rollei. They have a sensing mechanism that detects the beginning of the film.

That's a good point, and TLRs are pretty much ideal for shooting IR. Not all Rolleis have the sensing mechanism, though; my Rolleiflex (2.8C) has it, my Rolleicord (III) doesn't, and I don't know if it's just 'flexen vs. 'cords or if the situation is more complex than that.

-NT

EASmithV · Jun 11, 2009

The reason you need to load 35mm IR in the dark is because it has no antihalation dye, and will fog down the entire roll. IME, this is not an issue with MF.

ntenny · Jun 12, 2009

EASmithV said:
The reason you need to load 35mm IR in the dark is because it has no antihalation dye, and will fog down the entire roll. IME, this is not an issue with MF.

But in fact most current IR films *do* have an antihalation layer, right?---everything but Maco/Efke Aura, I think. So maybe it's not necessary with these films even in 35mm.

Has anyone actually seen fogging via light piping with any current IR film?

-NT

Larry.Manuel · Jun 12, 2009

>All of my MF cameras ...... require that you line up a start mark on the film backing with a mark in the camera or back before closing and winding on so that the camera knows where to stop for the first exposure.

My Rolleicord are all like this. I load in normal daylight [shade] all the time. Hint: keep a friction-finger on the spool of film so it won't unwind and loose its tension [ tension seals it well and keeps the light out].

Slixtiesix · Jun 12, 2009

The `Flex ususally have it from the old "Automat" up to the "F-Series". Cord, T-Model, GX and FX lack it. I´m not sure wheather the Rolleimagic has it or not...

sidearm613 · Jun 12, 2009

ntenny said:
But in fact most current IR films *do* have an antihalation layer, right?---everything but Maco/Efke Aura, I think. So maybe it's not necessary with these films even in 35mm.

Has anyone actually seen fogging via light piping with any current IR film?

-NT

You are right for the first part, as Aura is the only film lacking in an AH layer.

HOWEVER! this does not preclude normal Efke IR from the complete darkness rule. I cheated once and changed rolls once in super subdued light once, and it cost me my first three frames. I'll never to that again. All the other current IR films are pretty light pipe free, because they aren't "true infrared," but still, I would use caution with every IR film. How hard is it to carry a changing bag? Am I right?

ntenny · Jun 12, 2009

sidearm613 said:
I cheated once and changed rolls once in super subdued light once, and it cost me my first three frames.

Thanks---good to know! I don't shoot much IR in 35mm, but I'll keep loading it in the dark when I do.

A Holga is an ugly woman, a Brownie is a delicious treat.

Hmm, I'm not sure how well this line generalises. A Contessa is noble but unobtainable...what can be said about a Bob?

-NT

Q.G. · Jun 12, 2009

Bob does not drink and drive.

JPD · Jun 14, 2009

Slixtiesix said:
If you like TLRs you should try a Rollei. They have a sensing mechanism that detects the beginning of the film. I always found this superfluous but in your case it would make sense.
Greetz, Benjamin

And the Rollei IR filter is also a weak lens that automatically compensates for the IR focus.

RobertV · Jun 14, 2009

You can load and unload all actual IR production films in subdue light.
With the 35mm films you have to take care of the "light piping " effect. All 120 roll film versions are less sensitive due to the backing paper.

I am using Rollei IR820/400 in 35mm and 120 roll film and only the 35mm film you can see on the first 3-5 frames if you have load the film in the right way.

Best regards,

Robert

sidearm613 · Jun 15, 2009

RobertV said:
You can load and unload all actual IR production films in subdue light.
With the 35mm films you have to take care of the "light piping " effect. All 120 roll film versions are less sensitive due to the backing paper.

I am using Rollei IR820/400 in 35mm and 120 roll film and only the 35mm film you can see on the first 3-5 frames if you have load the film in the right way.

Best regards,

Robert

Not true. Efke Aura cannot under any circumstances be loaded in anything less than a dark room. And even all the other "true IR" films should be loaded in darkness. For the record, Rollei isn't a true IR film, because if you look at the sensitivity curves, it drops like a rock after about 750nm.

Philippe-Georges · Jun 15, 2009

I was taught that loading IR film (120) in a changing bag is not that good due to the warming up by the hands (and arms) in the little, closed and insulated space.

Philippe

RobertV · Jun 15, 2009

Efke Aura cannot under any circumstances be loaded in anything less than a dark room

This is the only film I have not checked out. Maybe you have to load in total darkness.

Efke IR820, Rollei IR820/400, SFX and SuperPan 200 you can load in subdue light and for development in a standard developing tank. I am using the Jobo 15XX system.

The 35mm versions of Efke IR820 and Rollei IR820/400 are most sensitive for the "light piping" effect.

sidearm613 · Jun 18, 2009

leicam5 said:
I was taught that loading IR film (120) in a changing bag is not that good due to the warming up by the hands (and arms) in the little, closed and insulated space.

Philippe

Wait, how would warmth from the hands affect the film?

Q.G. · Jun 18, 2009

Because radiated warmth = IR radiation.
Rather longer focal length, i gather, than what the film would be sensitive too.

michaelbsc · Jun 18, 2009

leicam5 said:
I was taught that loading IR film (120) in a changing bag is not that good due to the warming up by the hands (and arms) in the little, closed and insulated space.

Philippe

The old changing bag I've got specifically says not IR safe on it. So I guess it's out, too, huh?

Sirius Glass · Jun 18, 2009

Q.G. said:
Because radiated warmth = IR radiation.
Rather longer focal length, i gather, than what the film would be sensitive too.

The human body radiates in the 10 to 15 micron [10,000 to 15,000 nanometers] wave length. HIE is sensitive up to 0.8 micron [800 nanometers] range while the remaining available IR films go up to the 0.72 micron [720 nanometers] range. This should not be a problem if you load the film quickly.

Now if you were in the Sun, in the desert and spent hours loading one roll of film into the camera, then you might have a problem.

Steve

Loading in the dark?

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