Loading color film using night vision goggles

mri_tech · Aug 27, 2007

Greetings to all. I was wondering about the possibility of using night vision goggles as an aide for loading color film onto spools. I've read and heard you can do this with b&w, but could you do this with color since the color film is sensitive to all colors unlike the b&w film. Thanks for all the help and advice.

Tom

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 27, 2007

I believe you can. I believe they use IR goggles for film processing at Dwayne's. I'm not sure if that's on their website, or if I read it in an article on Dwayne's in the magazine _Super-8 Today_.

MikeSeb · Aug 27, 2007

If you are talking about starlight scopes--these greatly amplify even the smallest amount of ambient light, like starlight--they probably wouldn't work in a darkroom for film that is totally dark.

Others work by "seeing" in the IR spectrum, and that might do the job.

tjaded · Aug 28, 2007

You just need IR "goggles" and an IR light source. That's how we process all the color film at Newlab here in San Francisco (except for EIR of course!)

mri_tech · Aug 28, 2007

Night Vision goggles with color film

Thanks for your input. I use a IR Viper night vision goggles. They work fine with black and white with no fog. I'll try them now with color. After reading your response, I feel better about trying them with some color film. Thanks again.

Tom

Snapshot · Aug 28, 2007

Using IR is a great idea. I think I'll looking to getting a set of IR goggles.

bogeyes · Aug 29, 2007

tjaded said:
You just need IR "goggles" and an IR light source. That's how we process all the color film at Newlab here in San Francisco (except for EIR of course!)

Could you use a cheap 50w reptile heat lamp for the light source and make some cheap goggles using lee theatrical filter gel congo blue and primaty red?

resummerfield · Aug 29, 2007

mri_tech said:
......I've read and heard you can do this with b&w, but could you do this with color since the color film is sensitive to all colors unlike the b&w film. .....

I thought B&W Pan film was sensitive to all colors. I remember many years ago trying to load verichrome pan onto a developing spool under a dim safelight..... and it was totally fogged.

buze · Sep 9, 2007

The Viper infrared self-illumination is not 100% infrared, it's about 850nm so it's visible ad a faint red light. Therefore it will have an impact on any Pan or color film...
However you can also buy 940nm LEDs that are perfectly invisible and should be fine for any film.

I just designed a 60 LED 'timer' for the darkroom using these LEDs, it should help illuminate the darkroom, and prevent me forgetting stuff in the fixer
You can also buy a $10 LED 'headlamp' and replace the LEDs with 940nm ones, thats handy to inspect negatives...

AgX · Sep 9, 2007

mri_tech said:
..., but could you do this with color since the color film is sensitive to all colors unlike the b&w film.

Tom,

Both, b&w and colour films have the same panchromatic sensitation.

Exceptions are:
orthochromatic films (b&w)
infrared films (b&w and colour)
Ilford Micrographic (which has a cut-out in the sensitation spectrum as colour papers)

Albin · Sep 19, 2007

tjaded said:
You just need IR "goggles" and an IR light source. That's how we process all the color film at Newlab here in San Francisco (except for EIR of course!)

It could help if you give us the brand of IR goggles you are using at Newlab in San Francisco.

I want to make the good buy.

Thank You

htmlguru4242 · Sep 19, 2007

Any nightvision goggles will work with IR illumination; they're designed in this manner so that they can be used with an IR light indoors or in total darkness.

Just make sure, as mentioned above, to use IR LEDs without any red or near-red (850nm or so) output.

fschifano · Sep 19, 2007

If your goal is simply to use IR goggles as an aid to loading reels, why would you need them in the first place? A little practice and you can do it as easily in total darkness as you can sighted. Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through for very little gain.

Philippe-Georges · Sep 19, 2007

For goggles : look at FJW Industries from Illinois, this is what I have, and as a light-source : the famous Kodak safe light lamp-house with a n° 11 filter (CAT 107 9326), works fine.

Good luck,

Philippe

Christopher J Auito · Oct 11, 2020

fschifano said:
If your goal is simply to use IR goggles as an aid to loading reels, why would you need them in the first place? A little practice and you can do it as easily in total darkness as you can sighted. Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through for very little gain.

Searching for this in 2020 to help slit unexposed color double 8 film for straight 8 magazine loading. It is a valid question that may apply to few, but exploring these concepts, regardless of how difficult it may seem to some, leads to innovation.

beemermark · Oct 11, 2020

I remember reading a magazine articles (Shutterbug) years ago in which the author tried some really cheap TOY IR goggles. Claimed they worked great.

Donald Qualls · Oct 11, 2020

Christopher J Auito said:
Searching for this in 2020 to help slit unexposed color double 8 film for straight 8 magazine loading. It is a valid question that may apply to few, but exploring these concepts, regardless of how difficult it may seem to some, leads to innovation.

Might want to ask the submini camera crowd. Those guys build slitters to use in the dark or in a changing bag to convert (among other things) 16mm film to 9.2mm unperfed for Minox cameras. No reason one of their designs couldn't be adapted to center-cut a 16mm strip. Best of all, if it can be used in complete darkness, it'll be easier with IR goggles (monocular IR is now pretty inexpensive -- under $100 for non-toy units on Amazon).

bnxvs · Oct 12, 2020

In order to correctly answer your question, you need to have information about what kind of film you are going to work with. You should always first study the manufacturer's datasheet. They contain graphs of sensitivity to different regions of the light spectrum.
Here's an example (Fuji Superia 200):

https://www.fujifilm.com/products/consumer_film/pdf/superia_200_datasheet.pdf
As can be seen from the attached graph, the sensitivity of this film does not apply to the spectrum above 700nm.
However, I would recommend using a 950nm camera and backlight. They are not expensive in Chinese online stores. I myself use a bundle of 950nm WiFi camera and smartphone (I made a special cardboard box with sleeves).

Bill Burk · Oct 12, 2020

For the ATN Viper I recommend adding an attenuating piece of developed black and white film in front of the light source (not gelatin ND or color film based neutral density because both are transparent to infrared).

As-is you can work safely for a few minutes. But with attenuation you can extend the safe time.

Loading color film using night vision goggles

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