Loading an old Leica

cliveh · Nov 24, 2019

I have always wondered what the technical reason is for cutting a longer leader on the film to load an older Leica. If you are pushing the cassette and take up spool in together and sliding the film down the slit, why should you need to increase the leader length?

John Koehrer · Nov 24, 2019

Too engage both sides of the sprocket holes and to prevent the corner of the(short side) of the film from fouling in the film aperture.

Ko.Fe. · Nov 24, 2019

No idea, but if you won't do it - trouble.

Jim Jones · Nov 25, 2019

To save the bother of cutting a long leader for loading into bottom load Leicas, insert a business card in the camera's loading slot and load film with a short leader behind the card. Advance the film maybe one frame before removing the card.

BradS · Nov 26, 2019

Jim Jones said:
To save the bother of cutting a long leader for loading into bottom load Leicas, insert a business card in the camera's loading slot and load film with a short leader behind the card. Advance the film maybe one frame before removing the card.

Brilliant!
(Jeeez, why did I think of that?)
Thank you!

summicron1 · Nov 26, 2019

cliveh said:
I have always wondered what the technical reason is for cutting a longer leader on the film to load an older Leica. If you are pushing the cassette and take up spool in together and sliding the film down the slit, why should you need to increase the leader length?

It's to get the film in past the pressure plate -- Oscar designed it that way so that's what we have.

It takes 2 seconds to trim the leader with a pair of scissors and your eyeballs -- really, it's not a precision thing. Stuff involving business cards and even taking the lens off and setting the camera on T are just nuts.

charlie

StepheKoontz · Nov 26, 2019

summicron1 said:
It takes 2 seconds to trim the leader with a pair of scissors and your eyeballs -- really, it's not a precision thing.

It really isn't and if I'm taking a bottom loader out to shoot, I pre-trim the leaders on the rolls I take with me.

Bill Burk · Nov 26, 2019

I recall sometimes when loading, the film would kink and enter the shutter curtain area. Suppose a long leader wouldn’t do that as much.

Pentode · Nov 26, 2019

Jim Jones said:
To save the bother of cutting a long leader for loading into bottom load Leicas, insert a business card in the camera's loading slot and load film with a short leader behind the card. Advance the film maybe one frame before removing the card.

That's tricky!

mcfitz · Nov 27, 2019

Count down 28 sprocket holes on the film and cut the leader length from there.

AndyH · Nov 28, 2019

cliveh said:
I have always wondered what the technical reason is for cutting a longer leader on the film to load an older Leica. If you are pushing the cassette and take up spool in together and sliding the film down the slit, why should you need to increase the leader length?

Because you can't "slide" the sprocket hole over the sprocket without damaging the film. That's why people use the business card trick to get it over the sprocket.

The best way to deal with it, IMHO, is to do just what Oscar wanted you to. Make a smooth cut to the twenty eighth sprocket hole, but don't come out in the middle of the hole, as it can leave a "hanging chad" or tab dangling from the hole. If this breaks off and gets into the shutter curtain or mechansim it can cause problems, sometimes big ones. I keep a little pair of nail scissors in my Leica bag, and pre-trim whenever possible, so that all the rolls of film in this bag are ready to load.

You don't want to mess up the mechanism, and it's pretty easy to avoid with a little bit of care.

Andy

cliveh · Dec 2, 2019

Is that 28 sprocket holes from the end of the film? Or 28 from where it is already shorter by 8 sprocket holes?

Kodachromeguy · Dec 2, 2019

Jim Jones said:
To save the bother of cutting a long leader for loading into bottom load Leicas, insert a business card in the camera's loading slot and load film with a short leader behind the card. Advance the film maybe one frame before removing the card.

This is a great hint! One clarification please: after inserting a business card, do you mean place the film leader strip on the pressure-plate side of the business card? Thanks!

guangong · Dec 2, 2019

Leica screw mount cameras are the reason God gave us Swiss Army knives!

BradS · Dec 2, 2019

Kodachromeguy said:
This is a great hint! One clarification please: after inserting a business card, do you mean place the film leader strip on the pressure-plate side of the business card? Thanks!

Yes. This is the only way it makes sense to do it.

mcfitz · Dec 3, 2019

cliveh said:
Is that 28 sprocket holes from the end of the film? Or 28 from where it is already shorter by 8 sprocket holes?

28 sprocket holes from the end of the film, and counting down from there, I cut between the 28th & 29th hole into the film, curve the cut upwards and trim off the tail heading back up to the top.

pentaxpete · Dec 30, 2019

I did a VIDEO about my 1934 LEICA II and the loading is demonstrated -- on some bits the 'Video Focus' is out because I was using my Wife's Fuji Finepix S9600 and it was one of my 'earliest Video attempts' -- you can see it here :

cliveh · Jan 1, 2020

I think I would prefer to trim the film rather than using a business card. The card method is not one mentioned by Oskar.

BradS · Jan 1, 2020

Did Oskar mention trimming the film leader?

I thought that the film leaded depicted in the little diagram on the underside of the bottom loader Leica was the standard 35mm film leader length back when these cameras were new ???

cliveh · Jan 1, 2020

BradS said:
Did Oskar mention trimming the film leader?

I thought that the film leaded depicted in the little diagram on the underside of the bottom loader Leica was the standard 35mm film leader length back when these cameras were new ???

I don't know and others may care to enlighten us?

Ballinderry-Michael · Jan 1, 2020

BradS said:
Did Oskar mention trimming the film leader?

I thought that the film leaded depicted in the little diagram on the underside of the bottom loader Leica was the standard 35mm film leader length back when these cameras were new ???

My copy of Andrew Matheson's The Leica way, 6th ed. (1963) implies that all commercial 35mm film at that time was sold with the 4 inch leader. The book also states that while screw mount Leicas need the long leader, the M series don't really (even though both are bottom loaders as of 1963). Neither Matheson's book nor a little German book from 1952 mentions any need to trim the leader oneself (except of course for bulk film, where the ABLON-type templates are mentioned).

I have no trouble loading my IIIf the traditional way and honestly feel that the business card method is overkill.

Kodachromeguy · Jan 2, 2020

I looked at two books:
1. Leica Manual and Data Book, Morgan & Morgan, 14th Ed., July 1963. Fig. 18 on p. 27 shows a film with a long leader. No mention of trimming needed.
2. Leica Guide by W.D. Emanuel, Focal Press, 1979. The figure on p. 18 also shows a long leader strip. I wonder if this is incorrect and the publisher simply used an older figure in this edition?

BAC1967 · Jan 2, 2020

I always put a 4 inch leader on my bulk rolled film and load it without the use of a card. I hand cut the leader with scissors, once you do it a few times it's not hard. Just make sure there are no nicks that can get caught and cut between sprocket holes. When I load the film I may wast a little extra making sure it's going onto the takeup spool correctly.

eli griggs · Jan 2, 2020

If you are no using the Leica re-loadable film canisters, place a small cone shaped spring on the exposed bottom of the film cassette, before replacing the bottom plate, or you may very well see exposed sprockets because, the pre-M cameras holders are longer than a typical, modern 35mm film canister, which can drop down in use.

Also, when cutting the film leader, BE SURE to not start your cut by cutting through the sprocket hole, but between them, otherwise, little bits of broken sprocket can and will accumulate in your camera.

Leica had a brass, folding leader temple that allowed for a fast trim with a sharp pocket knife, and a close second choice, if you can no find an original user, was being made but I do no know where to find one at the moment.

I loved my IIIC and hope to own another Leica Barnack or M-film user one day, but always keep it in mind that you do no need the trimmer ( I used a pair of folding scissors or my Swiss Knife) or a card to load these cameras and a little practice will really increase your ease and speed, at film changing.

P.S. use the spring and remember it's there when you go to open the camera!

IMO.

Arklatexian · Jan 2, 2020

StepheKoontz said:
It really isn't and if I'm taking a bottom loader out to shoot, I pre-trim the leaders on the rolls I take with me.

Back when I had a bottom loader, I bought a Leica template to trim the leader with. I have seen almost the same thing listed as an "after-market" item. Still have mine and have used it to make shorter leaders for my "M" cameras. I have loaded both types of cameras without the leaders. It is "doable" if you are careful and just must have the one extra frame that you "might" get. By the way, the other end of the Leica template has the template for trimming the film so it will fit the "feed" spool in a Leica cassette............Regards!

Loading an old Leica

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