Loading a Leica M6

seanECfreeman · Jul 12, 2016

Hi guys, i have a Leica M6 how do i load it? ''back story''......

i have an m4 as well as an m6, when i first got the m4 I was terrified i would miss load it, so i always shot off a frame with the back open to check everything was winding nicely, i never had a miss load,
then i bought an m6, i loaded it the same way and never had a for 4 or 5 rolls, but now its behaving relay strange, it will shoot rolie 400 IR no prob, ''its a very light film'' it will wind with fomapan 400 ''a heaver film'' with the bottom plate off, but as soon as i attach the bottom plate i hear gears slipping on the film,
''What gives?'' is this a common problem? am i loading it wrong? it shoots fine with thin films. everything looks good on the inside.
''is there any dumb mistake i could be making?'' ''pleas tell me theres a dumb mistake i am making''
there was a guy interested in buying it, but when he tested a roll of film in it and it came out blank,

it had been a few months since i last shot a roll in it.

Ko.Fe. · Jul 12, 2016

Here is the way to check it. Load this film you have problem with.
Remove lens, fire it on different speeds and look at the shutter though the lens.

AgX · Jul 12, 2016

An advice for that guy with the blank film:
During winding action a rewind crank/knob must turn, otherwise the film missed the sprocket wheel or the perforation thas been torn, or winding gear is defect etc.

lauffray · Jul 12, 2016

Make sure the film perforations are well in the sprockets before closing, it helps to give the spool a bit more slack for the takeup too. It's funny, I always had problems loading my old M4 but never the M6

John Koehrer · Jul 12, 2016

There is a friction clutch involved with the take up spool.
The behavior with light/heavy film lets this creep into the thoughts

As above, open the camera and put a bit of additional drag on the film to check for slippage.

bence8810 · Jul 12, 2016

I recently gotten myself an M4 and going from an M3 I too was terrified at loading. What I noticed though is that if you position the leader exactly as it is shown on the illustration at the bottom of the camera, I never have a misload. You need to turn the takeup spools forks to get into the position exactly as shown and pull just as much film out of the cassette as required to fit through the forks.

When I am at this position I do nothing just replace the bottom plate and wind forward to frame 00. While doing this I already see the rewind lever turning (a good sign). I shoot this frame which usually comes out as 1/2 a frame after developing and wind on to frame 0. This will be the first usable frame on my film. Always check that the rewind knob is turning for the first 2 advances.

Ben

Huss · Jul 12, 2016

With my M7, M5, M4-2, MD-A I make sure the sprockets are engaged and wind one shot with it open. With all of them I've had mis-loads otherwise (following the loading instructions), but I caught it by the feel of the wind lever.
When you do this you can tension the rewind crank to make sure the rest is fine (but it always is if you do that). The advice of tensioning the rewind crank is not effective if the film never catches properly as you could accidentally wind it back into the cassette!

Yeah the M3 is more fiddly to load, but I've never had a mis-load with it either! Same with my 1f. IMO it is worth 'wasting' one exposure to make sure the rest are fine. I still get at least 37 exposures per roll.

lauffray · Jul 13, 2016

bence8810 said:
I recently gotten myself an M4 [...]

Congrats on the M4 Ben

Helinophoto · Jul 13, 2016

I'm with(there was a url link here which no longer exists) (there was a url link here which no longer exists) on this one.

The forks on the M6 plays a big role here, along with the sprockets.

The times I've failed to get the film loaded on mine, the causes were:
- Film-canister not seated all the way into the camera.
- Film canister seated deep enough, but too much leader has been pulled out, causing the film to be at an angle towards the bottom of the camera, fork side.
- Too little leader pulled out, forks not engaging properly.
- Film correctly inserted, but the film-perforations not over the sprockets correctly.

Normally, I pull out some leader, enough to reach the forks, then insert the film, making sure it's all the way in and straight, then i push out some more leader with my thumb (making sure not to push over the shutter-curtain), so that the film is loaded as per instructions on the bottom lid. After that, I push gently with a finger to check if the holes in the film are over the sprockets correctly. I then close the camera, and fire off a couple of shots, making sure the rewind-button is turning.
Tried various Kodak, Ilford and Fuji films, and it seems to work well.

I don't think it matters much if you shoot off a couple of frames with the back open, to check, my camera consistently gives me 38 usable frames, so there is room for a check shot.

seanECfreeman · Jul 14, 2016

Thanks guys, I think i see the problem no tho, it appears that the take-up prongs are too loos, when i shut the door and start advancing the pressure of the prongs pushing against the wheel on the base plate along with a heavy film is enough to cause the prongs to seize, which causes the film to backup and hop off the sprockets, ''at least that what it looks like'' have any of you ever had loos take up prongs? i can hold it back quite easily with my finger ''a lot easer than my m4''

chip j · Jul 15, 2016

The M6 isn't a real Leica.

NJH · Jul 15, 2016

I nearly always have to poke the film down near the take up spool to make sure the perforations line up over the sprockets. Then when I am content with that pull more leader out and feed into the take up spool.

Helinophoto · Jul 15, 2016

chip j said:
The M6 isn't a real Leica.

Funny.

Explain yourself.

chip j · Jul 15, 2016

It's all been a different cost-cutting philosophy for Leica since the M5.

Ko.Fe. · Jul 15, 2016

Where are some BS still floating around "after M5" Leicas, but some of it doesn't smell bad
Let me drop some... I'm was walking with cost-cutted Leica saver M4-2 in Toronto on me, no photography, but to meet seller of Minox B kit.
Suddenly, I see european tourist with camera and it looks like plastic chrome, kind of L-Bessaish top plate. What is this camera is - I asked. It is M6 - the european tourist from France replied. "Shock#shock$shock"

John Koehrer · Jul 15, 2016

seanECfreeman said:
Thanks guys, I think i see the problem no tho, it appears that the take-up prongs are too loos, when i shut the door and start advancing the pressure of the prongs pushing against the wheel on the base plate along with a heavy film is enough to cause the prongs to seize, which causes the film to backup and hop off the sprockets, ''at least that what it looks like'' have any of you ever had loos take up prongs? i can hold it back quite easily with my finger ''a lot easer than my m4''

Back to the subject at hand. If the fingers take up correctly with the light film but not the thick film
it is indeed time for some service. That's going to be a bit of taken apart & fixin stuff not bending the prongs.
Fixin'=replacing the clutch in the wind system.

AGagnon · Jul 21, 2016

I always fold the tip of the leader before putting it in the take-up spool. The folded tip will act as an anchor. As the others said, also make sure that the sprocket are engaged in the holes of the film. You don't even need to shoot one frame before closing the back.

I got the tip from this video of Tom Abrahamsson :

Huss · Jul 21, 2016

AGagnon said:
I always fold the tip of the leader before putting it in the take-up spool. The folded tip will act as an anchor. As the others said, also make sure that the sprocket are engaged in the holes of the film. You don't even need to shoot one frame before closing the back.

I got the tip from this video of Tom Abrahamsson :

He shot one frame before closing the back. It's good insurance. The tip to fold the end of the film is an excellent one and I will be doing that from now on, thanks for that!

Pioneer · Jul 22, 2016

I believe your M6 needs to be serviced. It would appear that the sprocket teeth are starting to slip and that is why you are noticing that the thicker films are not advancing properly.

In reality the only function the quick load fingers have is to wrap up the film in a snug cylinder as they receive it from the sprockets. If the quick load fingers actually had to tug the film along it would never work. The sprockets are actually what advances the film when you wind on with the lever. It won't matter where you place the leader in the quick load fingers if the film perforations are not correctly placed on the sprocket teeth or if the sprocket teeth are slipping and are not moving the film to the quick load at the proper speed.

If you have roll of film you can afford to waste, load the camera but leave the bottom off and watch how the film advances. I am sure you will notice that the sprockets are not advancing the film as quickly as they should be to properly feed the quick load fingers.

Luis-F-S · Jul 22, 2016

chip j said:
It's all been a different cost-cutting philosophy for Leica since the M5.

Yeah right! I've had every model from the M2 to the M6, the M6 is what I kept. Guess I've been cost cutting. Also don't understand the issues with loading an M6. It could not be much easier, pull the leader so it's in the middle of the take up forks, advance 1 frame with the back open to make sure the sprocket holes are engaged, close the back and advance 2 frames to "0" and make sure the re-wind is turning.

As always, don't forget to make sure the shower curtain is inside the tub before taking a shower. It just doesn't get much easier.

seanECfreeman · Jul 24, 2016

it will load fine for any where from 1 to 20 frames but every time it slips, i open the bottom plate to find the film is all loos on the take up spool, which causes a backup, and the film to lift off the sprockets, ''how this is happening?? 20 frames no prob, seems a bit too many for a missing tooth??

Huss · Jul 26, 2016

Not sure where u r but I would give Youxin Ye a call. What u have described is not a loading issue, but a film transport issue.

MEB · Aug 2, 2016

I also struggled a bit with the M6 film loading after I got my M6 early this year. Since then I loaded several different films including self-rolled film cartridges in the camera. Best advice I can give from experience:
1.) Tighten film in the cartridge before loading it into the camera - this will allow you to see if the film is transported after the release button is pressed by looking at the rotating wind button on the left.
2.) Don't move the film too much inside the spool - just a bit is sufficient for the spool flanges to grab the film
3.) Push the film a bit towards the top - there is a horizontal thin silver metal bar on top, just having the film sitting underneath this bar makes it straight. Normally the film then also falls in place with the sprocket teeth (they don't have to be 100% accurate within the film perforation, by winding the film this will automatically adjust).

hashtagquack · Aug 2, 2016

Could it be an issue with a film spool clutch (assuming it uses one)? The film slipping after 20 frames and being loose on take up spool very much like my Yashica Lynx 14

jho · Aug 7, 2016

Here is how I load mine. Never had a miss using this method, I find the M6 super fast and easy to load and can be done while walking unlike swing back loading doors. Just make sure the end of the film leader is right in the middle of the prongs on the take up side and the canister is fully seated with the film flush along the top rail. Perfect loading every time.

Loading a Leica M6

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