Loading 35mm on Jobo reels

Craig · Nov 12, 2017

I'm having trouble loading 35mm film onto Jobo reels for the 2500 series tanks. I seem to be able to get the film to about frame 18 or so and not any further. I tried using a scrap roll with the lights on and didn't get much further. Yes, I read the instruction sheet and am using my fingers to hold the film while oscillating, but it seems to jam and buckle after about 18 frames. So far I have put major creases in the film and even torn it once, so I'm obviously doing something wrong. Or I have to stick to 12 exp rolls!

I've used a Patterson reel thousands of times and I can load a 36 exp in under 30 seconds, first time, every time; but the Jobo's have me stumped. Is there a trick I'm missing?

Huapee · Nov 12, 2017

Did you pull out red duo tab clip already ? This is for separate 120 film but you must pull it out when use for 135.

Craig · Nov 12, 2017

Yes, I made sure the clip was out. When I tried a roll with the lights on, the corner of the film seemed to catch on the ribs of the reel.

mshchem · Nov 13, 2017

Yes Paterson reels are the easiest. YOU CAN NOT RELIABLY LOAD JOBO REELS WITHOUT SNIPPING THE CORNERS OF THE FILM TO BE LOADED. When I first tried loading Jobo reels I thought I would have a stroke. Now I snip, or more accurately, gently ROUND OFF the corners of the leading edge of the film.
Half the time this makes it so easy, you don't even need to ratchet the reel, I can just push the film onto the reel.
Any sharp corner or open sprocket hole, forget loading the damn things. You can get Hewes reels for Jobo, I have some, they work great. They add weight, put more load on the processor.
The only reason I use Jobo is when I use my processor. Mostly I shoot 120, this can be even worse.

The final answer is my secret weapon Jakks Pacific Spynet toy Night vision goggles. IR led illumination built in. Just make sure you use the IR ONLY leds, I taped over the dim visible red leds.
Best Mike

revdoc · Nov 13, 2017

I second rounding the corners of the film. Been doing that for over 20 years. It's also very important that the film and reel are totally dry.

It also depends on both the reel and the film. Some films just don't seem to give any trouble; also, of the two Jobo reels I use, one is better than the other.

Experimentation and practice will also help.

Craig · Nov 13, 2017

The night vision sounds like a great idea. I'm never wild about the idea of using scissors in the dark, I do value my fingers!

I wonder if I could build a trimmer where I stick the end of the film in, push down and it rounds off the corners? I'll have to think about that.

Billy Axeman · Nov 13, 2017

If the film is sticking halfway tap with a flat hand on the side of the spiral to loosen it up. What also helps is to cut off the leader leaving the film bending slightly inwards (a bit more than the natural bend). Also cut off tiny corners, but you must keep them very small.

Another trick is to wind the film in backwards into the spiral after you have spooled the film into a second cartridge.

I have seen this happening often when a film was left in a camera for some time. It is spooled backwards on the pickup spool and it is bending slightly outwards on the first part.

In nine out of ten cases, however, these problems begin when the spiral has collected calcium from hard water and the walls are not as smooth as before. You can check this by comparing the spiral to a new one. If it is light brown throw it away.

To slow down depositing calcium on spirals I flush them in demineralized water in a small flat tray before they are dried. Don't use photo flo in the water.

Anon Ymous · Nov 13, 2017

Billy Axeman said:
... In nine out of ten cases, however, these problems begin when the spiral has collected calcium from hard water and the walls are not as smooth as before. You can check this by comparing the spiral to a new one. If it is light brown throw it away...

Why throw away perfectly usable reels, especially if they're not particularly cheap? Some photochemicals stain plastics anyway, so it's not necessarily an indication of calcium deposits. But even if it is calcium deposits, immersing them in dilute acid (hydrochloric for instance) would remove them. I don't do anything special with my Jobo reels, except from not immersing them in the wetting agent solution. From time to time I will scrub them with soap, hot water and a toothbrush and that's all.

To the OP: Rounding the end of the film will help, but take care not to cut too close to the perforation. I've done it and had no chance to load the film in a Jobo, as well as Paterson reel. The edge was too soft and would bend and block. There's one other thing that helps with hard to load film. There's a place at the sides of the Jobo reels where you put your index fingers and guide/push the film forward. If your film stops halfway through, try to push it from both sides at this place and move it slightly towards the center. This will unblock the film and you'll be able to continue, repeat if it gets blocked again. Eventually you'll load the film.

Neal · Nov 13, 2017

Dear Craig,

I have 5 jobo reels and one always seemed to cause me problems. I exchanged haves with one of the other reels and the problem went away.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

ITD · Nov 13, 2017

Craig said:
The night vision sounds like a great idea. I'm never wild about the idea of using scissors in the dark, I do value my fingers!

I wonder if I could build a trimmer where I stick the end of the film in, push down and it rounds off the corners? I'll have to think about that.

I trim the corners in daylight - use a film retriever to pull the end out, trim then wind it back in.

R.Gould · Nov 13, 2017

Pencils work just as well wit Jobo as with Paterson, I use both and before I load any film, 35mm or 120, I run a pencil around the groves in the reel, and the film always loads first time, I agree with trimming 35mm film, just ake sure you cut between the sprockets
Richard

Billy Axeman · Nov 13, 2017

Anon Ymous said:
Why throw away perfectly usable reels, especially if they're not particularly cheap? Some photochemicals stain plastics anyway, so it's not necessarily an indication of calcium deposits. But even if it is calcium deposits, immersing them in dilute acid (hydrochloric for instance) would remove them. I don't do anything special with my Jobo reels, except from not immersing them in the wetting agent solution. From time to time I will scrub them with soap, hot water and a toothbrush and that's all. .....

Good luck trying to remove calcium from your reels, even with specialized household chemicals. I don't waste my time on that.

Scrubbing your reels with soap has the same effect as using photo flo. I actually scrub my reels with a toothbrush after each use (before flushing them in demineralized water), but I don't see a noticeable effect on the lifespan.

A set of two reels from Jobo will cost you 25 Euro (US Dollar), they are good for 2..3 years of use. Very affordable actually.

mnemosyne · Nov 13, 2017

I support Anon Ymous' hint to control and correct the film position with the index finger ... It sounds more complicated than it is in reality. I also suggest not to use the loading mechanism of the Jobo (turning the two halves of the reel agains each other) but simply push the film onto the reel. It requires a bit of technique, but is much less error prone and much more gentle to the film than the classic method. I created a short video some time ago that shows this style of loading. In the video you can see how I use the index finger of the left hand resting on the side of the film to control it while it is sliding down the groves of the reel. This is exactly the same position where you would gently push on the side of the film to free in case it has jammed. The video shows the 1500 series wheels, but IIRC loading works in the same way with the 2500 wheel.
Video
https://flic.kr/p/deQjre

darkroommike · Nov 13, 2017

Send all your trash Jobo reels to me! Especially calcium caked units. Thanks.

Billyjim · Nov 13, 2017

darkroommike said:
Send all your trash Jobo reels to me! Especially calcium caked units. Thanks.

Hi, Craig,
I'm brand new to the forum, but I had to register just to answer your question about Jobo reels. I've used them for over twenty years and, once I got the hang of it, have had absolutely no trouble, although, admittedly, they can sometimes seem recalcitrant. I don't clip the film ends either.
If you examine the two reel sections, you will notice that each has an indented area on the outside flat edge. When you load the reel, use the palms of your hands to walk the film onto the reel while you place your two index fingers on these indented areas. This will allow you to feel the edges of the film as it walks on to the reel. Loading problems arise because front edge of the film gets cocked as it goes on the reel, and you can feel this with your fingers. If you just press on the cocked area, the film will straighten and continue to load. You will move your fingers toward the middle of the reel following the front edge of the film as it loads so that by the time the film is completely on the reel, your fingertips will be almost at the center hub of the reel.
I find this works all the time, but sometimes it takes multiple tries to get the film straightened out. It' tougher with 120.
I hope this helps..

R.Gould · Nov 13, 2017

Billy Axeman said:
Good luck trying to remove calcium from your reels, even with specialized household chemicals. I don't waste my time on that.

Scrubbing your reels with soap has the same effect as using photo flo. I actually scrub my reels with a toothbrush after each use (before flushing them in demineralized water), but I don't see a noticeable effect on the lifespan.

A set of two reels from Jobo will cost you 25 Euro (US Dollar), they are good for 2..3 years of use. Very affordable actually.

Don't know where you get that from, I have a lot of both jobo and paterson reels, I have had them for far longer than 2/3 years, I never scrub my reels, haven.t ever in nearly 60 years of developing film, all I ever do is empty the tank after the final wetting agent rinse, I do not wash my reels after this, just dry them ready for next film, all I ever do and ever have done is to run my pencil lead around the groves in either my patterson or Jobo reels, and at least 2 of my Jobo reels are at least 15 years old, my paterson reels are even older, some came with the original systen 4 tanks, indeed I still have and use the system 4 tanks, along with my super system 4 tanks,I have yet to have a problem with sticking film, just run a pencil lead around the groves and no problems, I suggest you try it, instead of tossing good reels
Richard

Craig · Nov 13, 2017

Thank you all for the suggestions! A big "duh" to me for not thinking of the retrieving the leader and trimming it in daylight, I've always just opened up the cassette and trimmed in the dark. I know I have a leader retriever - somewhere! I'll have to consciously not rewind it back when I'm done shooting

I will have to shoot some film and practice loading it onto the reels.

Billy Axeman · Nov 13, 2017

I have exactly the same problems as the OP with the Jobo's. So, I can only say what I do to prevent sticking films. Any solutions or reasons are welcome.

BTW, I use HP5+ and FP4+, in the Jobo's 1510 and 1520 for already many years, but last year I suddenly got problems until I replaced the reels.

Billy Axeman · Nov 13, 2017

R.Gould said:
.... just run a pencil lead around the groves and no problems, I suggest you try it, instead of tossing good reels
Richard

When you are running a pencil lead around the groves don't you get carbon dust over there? Or are you washing the reels afterwards?

Billy Axeman · Nov 13, 2017

Billyjim said:
Hi, Craig,
I'm brand new to the forum, but I had to register just to answer your question about Jobo reels. I've used them for over twenty years and, once I got the hang of it, have had absolutely no trouble, although, admittedly, they can sometimes seem recalcitrant. I don't clip the film ends either.
If you examine the two reel sections, you will notice that each has an indented area on the outside flat edge. When you load the reel, use the palms of your hands to walk the film onto the reel while you place your two index fingers on these indented areas. This will allow you to feel the edges of the film as it walks on to the reel. Loading problems arise because front edge of the film gets cocked as it goes on the reel, and you can feel this with your fingers. If you just press on the cocked area, the film will straighten and continue to load. You will move your fingers toward the middle of the reel following the front edge of the film as it loads so that by the time the film is completely on the reel, your fingertips will be almost at the center hub of the reel.
I find this works all the time, but sometimes it takes multiple tries to get the film straightened out. It' tougher with 120.
I hope this helps..

Thanks Billyjim I'll try this out too.
Welcome to Photrio

AgX · Nov 13, 2017

Craig said:
Thank you all for the suggestions! A big "duh" to me for not thinking of the retrieving the leader and trimming it in daylight, I've always just opened up the cassette and trimmed in the dark.

I never had issues with trimming the edges in the dark. One can feel if the perforation hole has been cut open, then one can cut a bit further a second time.
Only if the stiffness of the bevelled corner really counts (as someone hinted at in a post) then one has to do the bevelling in the light to see to leave as much "flesh" as possible in front of the hole.

R.Gould · Nov 13, 2017

Billy Axeman said:
When you are running a pencil lead around the groves don't you get carbon dust over there? Or are you washing the reels afterwards?

No not a problem, all it does is leave dry graphite on the groves, I don't wash the reel afterwards, I run the pencil around the groves, load the film,(or films if it is 120) and process the film, wash, give a wetting agent rinse, hang the film up to dry, and put the tank and reels to dry untill they are needed again, I do not scrub my reels, I do not wash the wetting agent out of the reels, all I do is dry them, and use again, I have been doing thing this way for nearly 60 years and I have never had a problem loading film, and I was taught this trick by a older photographer who had been doing this for many years, he gsve me this tip after my first film, which I had trouble loading, you need to do nothing more than use a pencil

Billy Axeman · Nov 13, 2017

R.Gould said:
No not a problem, all it does is leave dry graphite on the groves, I don't wash the reel afterwards, I run the pencil around the groves, load the film,(or films if it is 120) and process the film, wash, give a wetting agent rinse, hang the film up to dry, and put the tank and reels to dry untill they are needed again, I do not scrub my reels, I do not wash the wetting agent out of the reels, all I do is dry them, and use again, I have been doing thing this way for nearly 60 years and I have never had a problem loading film, and I was taught this trick by a older photographer who had been doing this for many years, he gsve me this tip after my first film, which I had trouble loading, you need to do nothing more than use a pencil

Thanks. I like tricks from old hands, they generally know what they are doing

Sirius Glass · Nov 13, 2017

Clean your reels with Lime Away and a tooth brush.
Run a pencil in the grooves.
Trim the film corners.

MattKing · Nov 13, 2017

Nail clippers are great for trimming corners.

Loading 35mm on Jobo reels

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