Loading 35mm film onto Paterson Reels

RattyMouse · Jul 19, 2014

OK, my second problem for today. This morning I tried for the very first time to load a roll of 35mm film onto a Paterson reel. I've done over 100 rolls of 120 size film onto the same reel the past year, without a single error. Not one. For the life of me, I could NOT get this film onto the reel. No matter what, at some point it stopped rolling. I'm in a dark closet, not a changing bag. I pulled the film off the reel about 12 times and started over and every last time the film stopped, sometimes mid way, sometimes with maybe 6 inches of film left to go. Nothing I could do could get that film onto the reel. I even stopped working, capped the film into the tank and used a hair drier to fully heat up the reel until it was very hot. Didn't make a difference (it was bone dry to start with). After about 5 more tries, I ripped the film to shreds, I was that angry. Not a good move, but god damn this was frustrating. I've never once had an issue loading 120 film.

Any ideas how I can improve on this?

Hatchetman · Jul 19, 2014

random thoughts: clean out the reels with a toothbrush, put some pencil graphite in the channels, make sure you cut off any tape at the end of the film, make sure you haven't cut through one of the sprocket holes which might get caught on something. I find 35mm easier than 120 myself. (?)

Oxleyroad · Jul 19, 2014

I have had that same issue but doesn't matter if 120, 127 or 135. I found the film was catching on one of the spiral ribs. Never the same one either. My solution is I always cut a chamfer on each corner before I load the spiral. Since then I never had a film bind up.

gone · Jul 19, 2014

I was having similar issues. Turned out that the Photo-Flo had built up on the reels (you can't see it or feel it). I cleaned them thoroughly w/ a little diluted bleach with hot water, scrubbed them well w/ a toothbrush, and that ended my troubles. Rounding off the corners of the film helps as well.

RattyMouse · Jul 19, 2014

momus said:
I was having similar issues. Turned out that the Photo-Flo had built up on the reels (you can't see it or feel it). I cleaned them thoroughly w/ a little diluted bleach with hot water, scrubbed them well w/ a toothbrush, and that ended my troubles. Rounding off the corners of the film helps as well.

I heard about Photoflo build up long before I started developing. As such, my #1 clean up procedure as soon as i've hung the film is to blast my reels with piping hot tap water for 3-4 minutes. That is the very first thing I do. My reels are in contact with Photoflo a maximum of 2 minutes per process cycle. So I doubt this is my problem, but I'll look into this.

What's the theory behind rounding the corners of the film? Is that to prevent something getting caught? If so, that's an interesting idea.

RattyMouse · Jul 19, 2014

Oxleyroad said:
I have had that same issue but doesn't matter if 120, 127 or 135. I found the film was catching on one of the spiral ribs. Never the same one either. My solution is I always cut a chamfer on each corner before I load the spiral. Since then I never had a film bind up.

Not sure what a chamfer is, but I think you are echoing momus' suggestion.

rdg · Jul 19, 2014

RattyMouse said:
Not sure what a chamfer is, but I think you are echoing momus' suggestion.

Essentially it is the same thing.

Richard

MattKing · Jul 20, 2014

If it is Kodak film, maybe its nose is out of joint .

Make sure that you check that the little stainless steel ball bearings are free to move. There is a good chance that is what is catching.

Does 35mm film load easily in the light? It is always worth trying this, in case the reels are damaged.

And in general, remember that it takes a light hand. If you press too hard, the two sides may stray from parallel.

bernard_L · Jul 20, 2014

Not sure what a chamfer is, but I think you are echoing momus' suggestion.

The spirals are held in place by radial "spokes". Film is guide radially by the spirals and axially by the spokes. Cutting the corners of the film end diagonally, but not across a hole, helps the film "find its place" each time it meets a spoke on its inward travel. I've also had a case of one of the spokes having a manufacturing defect: a small protrusion; surgical removal suppressed the trouble.

Jaf-Photo · Jul 20, 2014

Cleaning, for sure.

There's usually some residue on the spool from previous sessions. This is a source of friction that can cause some films to stop.

Some films are extra prone to sticking, I often have issues with Fuji Superia 400 X-tra.

But a quick scrub with some form of brush immediately after developing solves the problem for the next time for me.

Also doing a rounded cut on the leader prevents stoppage.

BradS · Jul 20, 2014

momus said:
I was having similar issues. Turned out that the Photo-Flo had built up on the reels (you can't see it or feel it). I cleaned them thoroughly w/ a little diluted bleach with hot water, scrubbed them well w/ a toothbrush, and that ended my troubles. Rounding off the corners of the film helps as well.

These two suggestions are almost certainly your problem. I've been using patterson reels for about 30 years and always have difficulty with 36 exposure 35mm films if I do not follow these two tips.

1. Clean the reels with a toothbrush and baking soda after use...espcially is you dip you reels in photo-flo.
2. Trim the leading edge of the film. After you cut off the leader, cut very small bits of the corners off the film to make the corners of the edge of the film that will feed into the reels slightly rounded. If you haven't re-wound the leader into the canister, you can do all this cutting in day light.

pentaxuser · Jul 20, 2014

To be on the safe side you might want to withdraw the film from the reel before placing it in Photo-flo. That way the reel never has any contamination on it. It is certainly what I do after experiencing a major problem trying to load a 135 film onto a Jobo reel. So it isn't just the Paterson reels that give these problems. Any reel can if there is a trace of Photo-flo that might have been overlooked when scrubbing the reel

pentaxuser

Ronald Moravec · Jul 20, 2014

pentaxuser said:
To be on the safe side you might want to withdraw the film from the reel before placing it in Photo-flo. That way the reel never has any contamination on it. It is certainly what I do after experiencing a major problem trying to load a 135 film onto a Jobo reel. So it isn't just the Paterson reels that give these problems. Any reel can if there is a trace of Photo-flo that might have been overlooked when scrubbing the reel

pentaxuser

Wash, hang, weight, use a spray bottle with wetting agent.

Cut a triangle of film off the part that goes in first. About 30 degrees to the film edge and one sprocket long.

It is difficult to remove wetting agent even if it has not dried. In time it gets sticky.

120 is thinner and shorter giving less friction.

jeztastic · Jul 20, 2014

I agree. This is the most frustrating thing. But everyone is right.

1. Check the ball bearings for movement.

2. Snip off the corners of the film.

Has made all the difference in the world.

Nuff · Jul 20, 2014

Cut corners and apply pencil graphite. I found that when loading film you build up resistance gradually. Eventually enough builds up that the film will not move and get stuck in channel. Graphite is a lubricant and the film will go in with ease. I ruined several rolls before learning this trick.

I had to reapply the graphite about every 3 rolls or so. You will notice your 120 will go on faster too. I just found the constant cleaning and apply graphite (takes a while) too time consuming. So I switched to stainless steel reels and I never looked back (yes someone had to say it and just as well I could be the first one ).

Anyway, get a roll of unexposed 35mm film that you can waste and load it in light. The graphite makes huge difference.

zanxion72 · Jul 21, 2014

Also, make sure when loading the film on the reel your hands do not get moisture. Even a bit of sweat will prevent your film going in smoothly, especially those that have a very thin base.

Xmas · Jul 21, 2014

I doubt that some of the above schemes are necessarily the problem.

120 or 220 are really hard.

35mm should be easy by comparion unless your camera has a reverse wind and you let the film acquire a reverse curl.

In Leicas, Pentax, etc. the film goes over the sprocket shaft and under the take up spool. Leave the film in the camera for a day at 35 exp and it won't go into a Patterson spool unless you rewind and leave it for a week.

It acquires a set like spring steel.

My spools have not been cleaned in a decade and I don't rinse after surfant... Etc.

You need to feel for any stiffness in loading and go slower.

Ko.Fe. · Jul 21, 2014

Paterson film reel and no problems to load 120 film?

Then I load 120 into same reels it is very easy, because it is very short film.

135 of 36 isn't easy, 40+ frames is difficult. Around 24 is OK.

With 120 film you don't have to do it, but with 135 you need to rotate one half of the reel. Reel it in and push film in by same time, reel it out, while holding the film. More film in the reel, more you have to work it out.

John Salim · Jul 21, 2014

One thing I've found using Paterson reels is to make sure you push them together whilst loading ( this makes all the differance ).
I also snip the corners off 120's and this works fine for me.

John S

mhcfires · Jul 21, 2014

I have always found Paterson reels to be a problem loading 35mm film. Not sure if it is operator error or just plain bad luck. I have no problem loading 120 on those reels, a piece of cake. For the past fifty years i have used stainless reels for my 35mm film. yeah, I have an occasional problem loading a steel reel, but those are few and far between. I'll stick to steel for my 35mm films and keep the Paterson for the 120.

m

Chris Richards · Jul 21, 2014

Drying the spirals with a hairdryer before loading, even if they seem dry, seems to solve most of the problems of sticking.

Loading 35mm film onto Paterson Reels

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