Loading 120 film in 116 - how much offset, functionality?

[jay moussy]

Well, very soon I will load the new-to-me Ansco Folding Buster Brown, made for 116 (=70mm wide).

I will have to build of buy spacers, but I want to make sure I understand these issues better:

- film should be loaded offset, flush with "lower' spool flange, correct?
- is the above enough offset to allow reading frame numbers through red window?
(it may be that I need to do a dry run with backing paper to get a manual frame count)
- will I need a frame mask on the body, and perhaps widening the very thin backplate tension blades?

I will try a dry rum shortly, but I thought of asking to better prepare and improve on my tests to follow.

 

[MattKing]

Do the dry run!
With my 616 Kodak camera, the film is centred on the gate.
My camera is designed to create 2.5" x 4.5" negatives, and the red window is about 3/4 into the film gate.
IIRC, the spacing that worked for me was included stopping half way between some numbers.

 

[Donald Qualls]

If you can see blades for the backplate, your backplate may be missing...

The YouTube videos I've seen for 116 cameras had the film loaded centered (and the 3D printed adapters for sale on eBay are made for that position), and advance was by "count the turns" -- which won't be accurate if you use just backing paper, because it doesn't build diameter at the right rate. I recently found that I can cut a strip of backing to the same length as the film from 120 and roll it into the backing and it comes out the same thickness as a new roll, so I'd recommend doing the same. Then, of course, you need to black out the red window. You can also use the "dummy roll" made this way to get the correct turn count for "load by the arrows" roll starting.

A frame mask is optional; if you're going to shoot 120 regularly, you may want to make one, perhaps even move the framing window to the 6x6 track (and wind to even numbers as with a 6x12 format).

 

[nosmok]

I'd make sure your film is centered, otherwise whatever edge-field defects are present will be only on one side. You can drill another hole thru the back and pressure plate (if there, not all old cameras have them. Kodak 3a's don't, but those are 122 film.) and use a red filter swatch for a new red window-- that's what I did for my 122>120 6x14 pano camera.

 

[jay moussy]

@Donald Qualls above:

All sample pictures of that camera show the same thin springy "ski" blades, 6 mm wide each, and spacing between them is 62 mm. I swear I thought I had read a @Donald Qualls post elsewhere on forum mentioning of offsetting the film.. maybe the context was different?

Red window is an awfully weak red.
I will ignore it and block it, since the numbers shown are meaningless anyway.

Spool that came with it looks like a later Kodak metal one, stiff going in, but I have a period-correct wooden one from another 116.

Dry run with dummy roll will clarify some issues. Nice idea of doubling the thickness to approximate the actual diameter build-up!

 

[Donald Qualls]

Dry run with dummy roll will clarify some issues. Nice idea of doubling the thickness to approximate the actual diameter build-up!

I wish I could take credit for that, but it was suggested to me in my thread about my Graflex 22 roll film holder on my RB67. It does work, though; the thickness is within industry variation for film, and the resulting dummy roll is the same diameter as a fresh 120.

 

[jay moussy]

It seems some folks do use the off-center method.

A spacer to offset the supply 120 spool, and...
Another spacer inside the 116 to prevent film fogging exposure.
Add also a single-side mask.

There seem to be some compromises in framing the picture, but there should be some, one way or another.

Did I understand the benefit of centering as producing an optically balanced picture, with less fringe (vintage) lens effects?

 

[MattKing]

Did I understand the benefit of centering as producing an optically balanced picture, with less fringe (vintage) lens effects?

Centered film will give you better results, in that the area with maximum contrast and resolution will be in the centre of the frame.

 

[wjlapier]

I recently took my Kodak Junior Six-16 II out. 120 film only on the feed side and 616 spool on the receiving end. I had some spacers I purchased on the internet but their diameter was too large. The film pulled just fine through the camera without the spacers, but I did a trial run with a exposed roll of 120. Everything worked fine for the first time but the red window is weak as someone mentioned above and there was some light leaking through, but fortunately only on the space between exposed frames. I also just realized that US quarters will act as spacers on the feed end and fit perfectly--one on either end of the 120 spool.

Kodak Portra 400. Smoke in SE Washington from Oregon fires.