Lith Printing Problem--or Two

Several times in the course of lith printing I have encountered a couple of problems that seem as if they might be related, but which I have not seen mentioned in lith troubleshooting advice (Rudman’s book and Moersch’s literature).

First, flecks that are lighter than the surrounding dark area: each fleck has an orientation—it looks like something in motion in a particular direction—and each appears independent of the others; in other words, they all seem to be going in different directions. This has happened on Forte Polywarmtone FB and Ilford FB MGWT. These appear after initial processing (I notice them as soon as the lights go on after fixing) and they extend over the entire print but are more visible in the dark areas.

Second, blue-gray spots that look like drops of liquid. As with the flecks, the drops all appear to have independent orientation. This has occurred on Ilford MGWT and Forte Fortezo (gr. 3), and it sometimes only shows up after selenium toning. As with the flecks, they extend over the entire print, but are more visible in the lighter areas.

My washing regimen is consistent, and these flecks/drops appear on one out of maybe twenty-five or thirty prints; once it occurred at the end of selenium toning/ferricyanide bleach/ redevelopment. The one possibly consistent element is that it may occur with developer that is close to exhaustion—but I’m not certain this is consistently the case.

I have not yet seen both problems on the same print.

It has occurred with Fotospeed LD20, Arista Lith, and homebrewed Naccolith developers.

Has anyone else encountered something like what I am describing? Furthermore, has anyone an idea as to why it might be occurring?

Could you post some examples?

I can't help with your first problem, but the second sounds like contamination. I used to occasionally have streaks of a bluish-purple color appear on the corners of some prints. I tracked it down to the fact that I was picking prints out of the lith developer with my fingers instead of tongs. Once I began religiously using tongs and keeping my hands out of the developer that problem disappeared. Once in a very great while a lith print will be ruined by a spot of the same purply color. I think it might be me accidentally touching the face of the print somewhere in the processing cycle, or perhaps getting a splash of fixer on a print after washing. Tim Rudman does warn in his books that careless procedures while lith printing will come back to haunt you.

I wish I could post examples--I have only a scanner for my negatives. Once in a while I get together with a friend who has a flatbed scanner, and the next time I do, I'll try to remember to take at least one of each.

Contamination seems a likely cause. I'll keep an eye on what I do. I'm certainly not immune to mistakes like picking the print out of the developer with the wrong set of tongs; it doesn't happen often, but even once is humiliating.

When lith printing, I don't use tongs because of the need to very quickly move the print from developer to stop bath. Dan is right, pulling the prints using your fingers can cause contamination which will definitely come back to haunt you at some point. Disposable nitrile gloves are what I use and I have no contamination problems anymore.

Contamination can also come from a tray used before with regular developer.
Dektol leaves a lot of stuff.
I had that once. Didn't rinse it well enough and prints were just awful. (blue grey stuff)
Now I have one tray just for lith. Period.

I agree with the dedicated tray for lithing.

If you are getting similar defects with different papers, then yes it is something with washing/fixing/contaminating.

Something to consider, though. The lith process is pushing the paper in ways it was not designed, and just as minor sloppiness in processing will magnify in the end, so will defects in the emulsion. One out of thirty is not bad. With some rc papers I lith with, I would say one out of ten.

Flecks can also been heat related...
So many probable causes

One out of thirty ain't bad, it's true. With maybe a bit more care, I could get those odds down, but now that you mention it, a bit more care is never a bad idea. I have dedicated tongs, trays, gloves, and like that, but I have been known to slip up.

And maybe the emulsion's to blame!

1 out of 30???? I think you are doing pretty well. I wish I only had problems with 1 out of 30....

That's 1 out of thirty for this pair of problems. I encounter many other problems that don't quite constitute the same level of mystery--everything from turning on the lights too early to mixing my developer using 20 parts H2O, one part A, and one part A again. After all is said and done, ending up with one print out of thirty that actually corresponds to what I had in mind sounds like a good average to me....