Lith printing and toning

sly · Apr 7, 2010

Help!! I have to have a print ready for exhibit by tomorrow. It was accepted on the basis of an 8X8 print and I've printed a larger one for the show and have a matt and frame for it already. I've had a ton of hassles matching the print tone. The best one I have right now was in the selinium too long and is too cool. Can I brown tone over selinium? Which would be the best to try? Viradon or Thiocarbamide? I'm working today, so won't be able to get into the darkroom until late today. Should I just start from scratch again (for the fourth time)?

KWhitmore · Apr 7, 2010

Do you have an old test print you could experiment with first? I'm not sure whether you can tone over selenium without a bit of bleaching back first. My notes say (from The Experimental Workbook, C. Anderson) that you CAN bleach after selenium and redevelop in thiocarbamide. However I personally have not done this. There was a thread here yesterday or the day before about bleaching after selenium. I'll see if I can find it.

Kathy

KWhitmore · Apr 7, 2010

www.apug.org/forums/forum37/74861-selenium-bleach.html

I don't know if this will work...I hope!

www.apug.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-73581.html

the 2nd link has more info...good luck and congrats on your exhibition!

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 7, 2010

Congratulations on getting the exhibition! Can you tell us what paper you printed on, and how you toned the 8x8, and how the larger print is not matching the smaller?

Thanks,

- Thomas

Robert Hall · Apr 7, 2010

Lith takes toner quickly and strong. If it tones blue, it tones very blue. What you might do is try toning for a few seconds (say 10) then in to a bath and let it sit for a few moments. You may want to use weaker toner as well.

I don't think re-toning at this point will do you much good as it sounds like you may have gone too far in toning, but you can give it a try.

Selenium is one of those toners perhaps done best at the end of other toner baths, and gold will most certainly bring your abilities to tone any further to an end.

You might try a short weak bleach, then a quick tone in brown toner or sulphide, then into selenium if you need a split tone.

Seeing both prints would be quite helpful here.

Best of luck.

sly · Apr 7, 2010

I've got quite a few binnable prints to experiment with. Something in the thread that Kate sent me to has me scratching my head. A couple of people say that a long wash isn't needed before selinium toning. Most of those binnable prints are rejects because they toned unevenly. The ones that were washed in a Patterson washer show stripes that match up with slats of the washer. The ones washed with a siphon show blotches at the corners where the washing wasn't as complete. The only ones that turned out I washed with the siphon for 1/2 hour, spending the whole time turning and interleaving the prints.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 7, 2010

In order to help better, can you describe how you toned the first 8" print, and how the larger ones differ in toning? What paper did you print on?

sly said:
I've got quite a few binnable prints to experiment with. Something in the thread that Kate sent me to has me scratching my head. A couple of people say that a long wash isn't needed before selinium toning. Most of those binnable prints are rejects because they toned unevenly. The ones that were washed in a Patterson washer show stripes that match up with slats of the washer. The ones washed with a siphon show blotches at the corners where the washing wasn't as complete. The only ones that turned out I washed with the siphon for 1/2 hour, spending the whole time turning and interleaving the prints.

sly · Apr 7, 2010

I'm using Foma131 and Maco superlith. The 8 inch print went chocolately in selinium (1:5). It went through cool tones first and then went brown. It's quite a high key print, with only a few sketchy dark lines. The larger print only went cool and didn't continue to brown - so it's gray-blue and completely wrong for the warm matt and frame I've already got.

I grabbed a little time at lunch, and did some tests with bleach/thiobromide and Viradon. The Viradon took longer, but gave me a tone closer to what I wanted, so I think I've got the problem solved. Thanks everbody for your input. Anyone in the area between April 10 and May 23 can see the show (I've got 5 entries) at the Nanaimo Museum.

KWhitmore · Apr 8, 2010

Congrats and please show us some photos of the event!

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 8, 2010

I'm glad you got it worked out!

I've found that batch to batch, the Foma papers behave a little differently, especially in the toner. I had some Foma 132 in 8x10 and 11x14, and the two sizes behaved completely different on the same negative. And that was before toning.

Lith printing can be so tricky sometimes.

Wish I could come see the show!

Rich Ullsmith · Apr 8, 2010

If the damn ferry wasn't so expensive, Nanaimo would be a great little outing. Congratulations on the show.

What do you suppose the problem was with the uneven toning and washing problems? Something is wrong there, whether it's poor clearing or spent fixer. Something ain't right.

Lith printing and toning

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