Lith on Chamois - what gives?

sly · Dec 10, 2008

I bought Foma Chamois paper, and have tried lith printing on it. I do OK if I let all shadows go black, and keep the highlights very high. With any midtones I'm getting white spots. White pepper?

I've attatched a photo showing the spots, with a companion of the same image on chamois as a regualr print.

Any advice would appreciated.

Rich Ullsmith · Dec 10, 2008

Hi, L. For what it is worth, I went through a box of this paper and never really got a "zinger" out of it. My experience has been that glossy lith papers have a stronger lith effect than their matte or chammy relatives, even with supposedly the same emulsion.

After I got fed up with it, started using Michael and Paula's Amidol with it, and it is lovely, a nice blue/brown split even before toning.

Only advice I would give, if you are going to continue with this paper, the Foma papers respond best in very weak, tired, warm developer. I usually start with 25mlA + 25mlB per liter of water (for LD20 concentrate; this seems to be ballpark for most concentrates).

Travis Nunn · Dec 10, 2008

Rich Ullsmith said:
...My experience has been that glossy lith papers have a stronger lith effect than their matte or chammy relatives, even with supposedly the same emulsion...

This is my experience as well, with one notable exception; Kentmere Art Classic was fantastic in lith. I have a very small stash of it left (less than 50 sheets of 8x10) and I have a few select negatives that privileged enough to get printed on it.

I did try the Foma Chamois a while ago because it has the same base as Art Classic did, but it wasn't even close (to me, anyway). In all fairness, I only went through one pack of this paper. I'm sure there are others that have gotten good results with this paper in lith but I never did.

Maybe I'll try it again...

Rich Ullsmith · Dec 10, 2008

The MG Classic glossy and the MG Chamois seem to be different emulsions. They certainly behave differently in lith. I could never get that explosive development in the blacks with the chamois.

If you decide to have another go with it in lith, perhaps change the ratio of A+B, adding more B which should make the developer more active. Won't last as long, though.

rdbkorn · Dec 11, 2008

I'm getting ready to get the fixin's to do some lith myself. I'm down island in Victoria - where did you get your Foma paper and lith developer (and which developer are you using)? Now that the Canadian dollar is back to being a limp noodle, I'm hoping to find a good source in Canada.

sly · Dec 11, 2008

I use Maco superlith developer. I order from where ever I can find stuff, but I think I got it through Beau Photo in Vancouver. The Foma paper I aquired last summer before our dollar tanked. I ordered it from Freestyle and had it delivered to a friends house in Washington, to coincide with our vacation down there.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 11, 2008

I've used this paper, about a 100 box worth, and I find that I don't like it with lith developers. I've used Maco Superlith as well as AristaLith liquid and AristaLith powder (from Freestyle) and I cannot get black out of the paper.

With that said, I've never seen the results you're having. I've always had evenly developed paper. I had some problems with Kentmere Kentona once where it was fine with regular chemistry, but exhibited problems with lith. I sometimes think that lith chemistry brings out both the best qualities and the worst qualities of paper - but you can never really tell when.

I concluded that this paper is best used with standard b&w chemistry, (I use Ansco 130 and Ilford Multigrade), where I can achieve a strong black and make that texture work for me.

Other Foma papers, like Fomabrom 112 and Fomatone 132 are, in my opinion, much better suited to lith printing.

- Thomas

sly · Dec 11, 2008

Thomas, I guess it's maybe individual depending on batch of paper, developer used, and maybe water impurities/differences. The print I've just sent out for the lith exchange is on Chamois. The black looks black to me, but it is an image of black and tenuous highlights, not much in the way of midtones. I'll post it here once I hear that my exchange mates have recieved their copies.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 11, 2008

I think you're right. I do get some black with it, but not that deep and rich black that I get from Amidol or 130.

When I used Maco Superlith, the same you do, I developed at 80*F in a fairly dilute solution. I can't remember exactly now what it was. Do you tone afterwards?

- Thomas

sly · Dec 12, 2008

I haven't toned Chamois. Toning is still an exploration I'm just at the beginning of. It depends on the image and what I want from it.

bill williams · Dec 12, 2008

I like Foma Chamois for lith

This is what I get with lith on Foma Chamois

sly · Dec 12, 2008

I like it! Love the peaches and cream of it. I knew I'd seen some lith on Chamois that appealed to me on APUG. That's why I ordered some.
What developer, dilution, temperature do you use?

bill williams · Dec 12, 2008

Ok, sorry but I don't remember all the details, but my typical run would be Fotospeed LD20, 1:12 to 1:18, 69 to 72 degrees F, and times would depend on how many prints had been though the developer and the dilution. Likely in the 8 to 10 minute range or perhaps longer. Of course the exposure is important too. The photo is of Crane Cottage on Jekyl Island, back when it was used for GSP barracks. It is now part of the hotel complex next door.

sly · Dec 12, 2008

How long ago did you print it? Is it possible the emulsion is not the same as the batch I bought last summer?

bill williams · Dec 12, 2008

It has been a year at least. I noticed you used a different developer than I do. I've use the same one that you used for your print, but I find much better and more colorful lith from the Fotospeed. And, it seems to me to have a very long shelf life.

Lith on Chamois - what gives?

sly

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