Lith issues

timeUnit · Oct 21, 2006

First the good:

I've used Moerch EasyLith with Fomatone Classic, Forte Polywarmtone and Adox FinePrint VarioClassic FB with really nice results. The Adox paper looks kinda strange, but still pretty cool. With a bit of Sepia it looks very nice on some subjects. I've been using 15A + 15B +15 Old + 1000 Water and 25A + 12B + 1000 Water (for Adox papers). Devtime 5-10 minutes.

The less good:
Tonight I tried two other papers with mixed results. With Kentmere Art de Luxe (2) I can't get any blacks, even after 30 minutes in fresh developer. I increased the A part in the developer, to no avail. With Foma Fomabrom (N) I get lovely tones, pale greys, deeeep blacks and a awesome look, but the developing times are very long. First print in 15A + 15B + 1000 Water took 25 minutes, second 40 minutes with added 5 ml of A and B, third print 70 minutes with added 5 ml A. 70 minutes is a long time... What can I do to decrease the times?

I'm wondering if the EasyLith has too much bromide. Could that be the problem? Because even if I add developer, with all the bromide in the tray plus more bromide from the developer, developing is restrained so much that replenishing is useless?

Any thoughts on this?

In any case, I can recommend Fomabrom. Cheap and FUN!

tim rudman · Oct 22, 2006

timeUnit said:
First the good:

I've used Moerch EasyLith with Fomatone Classic, Forte Polywarmtone and Adox FinePrint VarioClassic FB with really nice results. The Adox paper looks kinda strange, but still pretty cool. With a bit of Sepia it looks very nice on some subjects. I've been using 15A + 15B +15 Old + 1000 Water and 25A + 12B + 1000 Water (for Adox papers). Devtime 5-10 minutes.

The less good:
Tonight I tried two other papers with mixed results. With Kentmere Art de Luxe (2) I can't get any blacks, even after 30 minutes in fresh developer. I increased the A part in the developer, to no avail. With Foma Fomabrom (N) I get lovely tones, pale greys, deeeep blacks and a awesome look, but the developing times are very long. First print in 15A + 15B + 1000 Water took 25 minutes, second 40 minutes with added 5 ml of A and B, third print 70 minutes with added 5 ml A. 70 minutes is a long time... What can I do to decrease the times?

I'm wondering if the EasyLith has too much bromide. Could that be the problem? Because even if I add developer, with all the bromide in the tray plus more bromide from the developer, developing is restrained so much that replenishing is useless?

Any thoughts on this?

In any case, I can recommend Fomabrom. Cheap and FUN!

This will have to be a quickie, but will try and get back to the thread tomorrow or Tues to see what has been posted.
I've spent all day lith printing Fomatone MG classic and agree it is a superb paper, v responsive to dilution and toning.
I haven't tried the Art Delux yet so can't make a direct comment from experience but I have printed often with the same emulsion on the previous base and used it in my workshops many time without problems. I will get some from kentmere to try, but am really busy with some shows now so it will have to wait a bit.
I think your problem might be the bromide as you suggest. try his other Lith dev - or Superlith from Maco, LD20 from Fotospeed, or the Forte Lith, they have lower bromide levels
Sorry this is a bit quick
Tim

dancqu · Oct 22, 2006

timeUnit said:
I'm wondering if the EasyLith has too much bromide.
Any thoughts on this?

Home Brew lith developer is almost too easy. All that's
needed is hydroquinone, sodium sulfite, and carbonate.

After having compounded one with out intention I played
with some variations and found that the ph can be quite
low. A carbonate and bicarbonate 50-50 mix did well
although slow. Times were in the 8 to 18 minute
range. Some papers need no bromide. Dan

timeUnit · Oct 23, 2006

Thanks for the replies!

Tim,
First, the books look great!

Second, I will try other developers, if only I could get hold of them. Sweden is quickly turning into a digital place and photo chemistry is increasingly difficult to get hold of.

Which leads me to dancqu's reply. Are there any homebrew lith developers that are "better" or equal to the brand names. And Tim, have you used any homebrew lith developers to any extent?

One thing is certainly true with lith printing: it's addictive! I can't wait to print more. Too bad one has to go to work... ;-)

matti · Oct 23, 2006

Kameradoktorn (in Stockholm), stocks Maco Superlith and at least one more, I can not remember witch one. But maybe it isn't more difficult to have it shipped from somewhare else.
I don't know about the blacks with any other papers than graded Forteeze but it sure gets black ennough for me. (You can check one print in my gallery.)

/matti

timeUnit · Oct 23, 2006

matti said:
Kameradoktorn (in Stockholm), stocks Maco Superlith and at least one more, I can not remember witch one. But maybe it isn't more difficult to have it shipped from somewhare else.
I don't know about the blacks with any other papers than graded Forteeze but it sure gets black ennough for me. (You can check one print in my gallery.)

/matti

Thanks! Maybe I'll give them a ring...

tim rudman · Oct 24, 2006

timeUnit said:
Thanks for the replies!

Tim,
First, the books look great!

Second, I will try other developers, if only I could get hold of them. Sweden is quickly turning into a digital place and photo chemistry is increasingly difficult to get hold of.

Which leads me to dancqu's reply. Are there any homebrew lith developers that are "better" or equal to the brand names. And Tim, have you used any homebrew lith developers to any extent?

One thing is certainly true with lith printing: it's addictive! I can't wait to print more. Too bad one has to go to work... ;-)

I have used some non proprietary lith devs but by and large I use ready made ones, they are all available here and I keep nearly all of them and find that they give me what I want, with a bit of tweaking if necessary. Otherwise I didn't get on as well with those that didn't incorporate formaldehyde or substitute - but I know some others do use them. There are some formulae in the new book and some contributors have sent in their own to the Forum section - see Peter Svennson's entries.
Tim

Reinhard · Oct 25, 2006

why don't you increase exposure time

timeUnit said:
First the good:

I've used Moerch EasyLith with Fomatone Classic, Forte Polywarmtone and Adox FinePrint VarioClassic FB with really nice results. The Adox paper looks kinda strange, but still pretty cool. With a bit of Sepia it looks very nice on some subjects. I've been using 15A + 15B +15 Old + 1000 Water and 25A + 12B + 1000 Water (for Adox papers). Devtime 5-10 minutes.

The less good:
Tonight I tried two other papers with mixed results. With Kentmere Art de Luxe (2) I can't get any blacks, even after 30 minutes in fresh developer. I increased the A part in the developer, to no avail. With Foma Fomabrom (N) I get lovely tones, pale greys, deeeep blacks and a awesome look, but the developing times are very long. First print in 15A + 15B + 1000 Water took 25 minutes, second 40 minutes with added 5 ml of A and B, third print 70 minutes with added 5 ml A. 70 minutes is a long time... What can I do to decrease the times?

I'm wondering if the EasyLith has too much bromide. Could that be the problem? Because even if I add developer, with all the bromide in the tray plus more bromide from the developer, developing is restrained so much that replenishing is useless?

Any thoughts on this?

In any case, I can recommend Fomabrom. Cheap and FUN!

I like these papers too, and have used them successfully with Moersch lith. I always tried to expose that much to get an image in 4-5 minutes.

dancqu · Oct 25, 2006

timeUnit said:
I'm wondering if the EasyLith has too much bromide.

Any amount of bromide may be more than needed.
I mentioned that to Mr. Svennson and he confirmed.
His reported very short time I attribute to too little
sulfite.

Those long times you report suggest a too high a
level of free sulfite. For additional information search
this NG for, chemistry lith traditional .

You may be able to counter high sulfite levels by
using a minimal solution volume and use one-shot.
Using a flat bottom Cesco tray I can manage with
as little as 1/4 liter after pre-wetting. Dan

kunihiko · Oct 25, 2006

I have tried some home brew lith developer with very small amount of hydroquinone, sodium sulfite, KBr and lots of carbonate, got good result in short developing time. That made my bias against lith printing - long developing time - completely changed.

tim rudman · Nov 2, 2006

Sorry, wrong advice

tim rudman said:
This will have to be a quickie, but will try and get back to the thread SNIP SNIP
I haven't tried the Art Delux yet so can't make a direct comment from experience but I have printed often with the same emulsion on the previous base and used it in my workshops many time without problems. I will get some from kentmere to try, but am really busy with some shows now so it will have to wait a bit.SNIP SNIPTim

Sorry, I gave wrong advice here.
I assumed that this paper you were using was a current paper and as it isn't one they have in their current supply I then assumed that it must be one of the new papers they are bringing out, as written up in the World of Lith printing. When I went to press the new names had not been finalised and I stated this and gave the 'proposed' new names to watch out for so I (wrongly) supposed the names had been changed and you had the new batch.

Not so.

I wrote to Kentmere about your problem and they told me ...

"The comment below refers to an old and now discontinued product, Art de Luxe. The emulsion was not suitable for lith printing and so I am not surprised with the lack of result.

A 40 minute development (mostly in the dark) with the old Kodalith formulation may have resulted in some nice olive-green tones (this worked with the Bromide Gd.2 emulsion which is similar to the coating on Art de Luxe). However, we would have never recommended Art de Luxe for lith processing when it was in production." snip snip

Moral - never jump to conclusions!

Tim

timeUnit · Nov 2, 2006

Thank you very much! I'll immediately stop using Art de Luxe for lith printing.

Lith issues

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