Lith developer, making it

[lightwisps]

Does anyone have a recipe for making their own lith develooper and where can you et the chemicals? Thanks, Don

 

[MDR]

Unblinking eye has a collection of lith developer formulas http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/LithDev/lithdev.html Kodak D85 was the standard lith developer for many photographers and still is used by some.

Dominik

 

[lightwisps]

Thanks,

I will look them up. Don

 

[SMBooth]

There a Home brew Lith developer right here.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[grain elevator]

Resurrecting this old thread, couldn't find anything newer or conclusive on the topic.
The link in the above post might have lead to https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/LithDev/lithdev.html .
Can anyone report experience with the formaldehyde free formulas from that site, or any other home-brew lith developers? Image searches of the formulas on that site haven't yielded much that looks actually lithed, just a few nice looking examples from Ansco-70 on flickr. That is my #1 candidate for now. I'd really like to keep it formaldehyde free. A member here has posted about something he calls "modernlith", but the formula seems a bit complex for me, and don't need to lith papers that are considered unlithable, which is his objective. Thanks!

 

[Dali]

ANSCO 70 is not a real lith developer. Tray life is VERY short and I have never been convinced by pictures I did with it. To me, it is a waste of time and money as real lith developers are commercially avaiable.

 

[koraks]

Can anyone report experience with the formaldehyde free formulas from that site, or any other home-brew lith developers?

Google for Ryuji Suzuki's lith developer formulas. He uses trisodium phosphate which can be replaced with an appropriate amount of sodium or potassium carbonate.
Essentially, a good lith developer can be made with just hydroquinone, potassium bromide and potassium/sodium carbonate. Sulfite (potassium or sodium) may be added as long as the concentration does not exceed 2g/liter in the working strength developer.

ANSCO 70 is not a real lith developer. Tray life is VERY short and I have never been convinced by pictures I did with it. To me, it is a waste of time and money as real lith developers are commercially avaiable.

Yes, Ansco 70 is a perfectly functional lith developer, very similar to Kodak D-9 which is listed on the same Unblinkingeye page. It is correct that tray life is short, but this tends to be true for all lith developers. Tray life can be extended through certain additions of chemicals, but remains short in all cases due to the inevitable absence of effective antioxidants.

 

[grain elevator]

Cool! I've found a thread with Ryuji Suzuki's formula, https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/lith-printing-–-homebrew-developers.26536/.
Do you know what the metabisulfite in the Ansco 70 recipe does? And NaOH isn't needed? Great!
Dali, what makes you say Ansco 70 is not a real lith developer? It is a developer formulated for lithographic purposes; I assume you mean you got no infectious development. Under what conditions did you use it?

 

[koraks]

Do you know what the metabisulfite in the Ansco 70 recipe does? And NaOH isn't needed?

The metabisulfite acts as a preservative and also restrains development a bit, which can enhance the lith effect. NaOH is indeed not necessary and carbonate can be used instead. I use cleaning soda from the supermarket.

 

[grain elevator]

Excellent. I'd use NaOH if I had to, unlike formaldehyde, but I'm much more comfortable with washing soda.
So I'll try without metabisulfite, as it doesn't do much that bromide and sulfite don't do? I also have benzotriazole, but it apparently doesn't help in lith devs?
Time for another order from Suvatlar... Pretty excited to give this a go. Haven't done lith yet. I have to set up a darkroom in my bathroom first, my usual communal darkroom is still in lockdown. Already amassed some old paper, and just shot an easel on ebay!

 

[koraks]

AFAIK metabisulfite will be converted to sulfite in an alkaline solution, so it boils down to pretty much the same. You'll need a little more carbonate as some of it is 'lost' in converting the bisulfite to sulfite.

I also have benzotriazole, but it apparently doesn't help in lith devs?

I haven't tried it, but it might work in a similar fashion as KBr. However, in general, BZT is much more potent than KBr, so you'll use less. Not sure if the BZT will work in a lith developer though. Someone did some pretty extensive experimentation with homebrew lith developers recently, but I can't locate the appropriate threads at the moment. As I recall he also used BZT in some of his formulas.

 

[grain elevator]

The guy who posted a lot here recently is the author of this: https://grainy.vision/blog/in-the-margins-formulating-a-lith-developer. Indeed he writes something about benzotriazole, so thanks for reminding me to re-read this. Unfortunately I don't particularly like the examples he shows.
Great to know about the sulfite/metabisulfite. Nice to need less chems, it adds up quickly! Food grade sulfite is good enough for photographic purposes, correct?

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Someone did some pretty extensive experimentation with homebrew lith developers recently,

That's @earlz. His blog has several posts on lith developers.

 

[koraks]

Food grade sulfite is good enough for photographic purposes, correct?

Yeah, I use it all the time.

That's @earlz. His blog has several posts on lith developers.

Thanks, his name evaded me!

 

[tezzasmall]

Gosh! More interesting links to read!.... But I must stop reading about it and get in the darkroom to try some... it all...

Terry S

 

[Dali]

ANSCO 70 like D-9 are high energy developers which does not mean they are lith developers. It it weren't true, eveyone would use them.

I tried ANSCO 70. Very difficult to get the right dilution, the right contrast and the right energy amount to get 1 print. After that, the developer tunrs dark orange and is good to be discarded. I used it with Kentmere Kentona, Kodak Medalist and ADOX Nuance and could never get the right contrast.

If you want a lith formaldehyde-free developer, try Moersch Easylith, it is not that difficult to get it, it works OK and you don't spend your lab time mixing chemicals.

 

[koraks]

ANSCO 70 like D-9 are high energy developers which does not mean they are lith developers.

Yet, they both are true "lith" developers:
* only hydroquinone as active agent
* sulfite concentration below the threshold for inhibiting infectious development
* fairly high to high pH
And indeed quite a few people have used them, and with success too, in this application.

If course, easylith is a very valid and in particular a very well documented store bought option.

 

[Dali]

Don't really care if ANSCO 70 is or not in the lith developer category and if "people" use it with success.

By experience, I never got what I call acceptable results. This is why I stick with Easylith which is way more predictable, reliable and flexible.

 

[iakustov]

I experimented with Chemco and the results were similar to Easylith with Fomatone paper.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Does anyone have a recipe for making their own lith develooper and where can you et the chemicals? Thanks, Don

Unfortunately this is the holy grail... I have not seen in the last 16 years of me being on this forum anyone who has made from scratch or has a made from scratch formula that matches ... LD 20 or Moresch Lith or even the best Nova Lith.

 

[newcan1]

Anyone following this thread know where one can buy paraformaldehyde?

 

[grain elevator]

If you want a lith formaldehyde-free developer, try Moersch Easylith, it is not that difficult to get it, it works OK and you don't spend your lab time mixing chemicals.

It's very easy for me to obtain in fact, Moersch and I are in the same country. I buy toner from him, and he deserves praise for his excellent documentations indeed and at least the fair prices he charges. But I actually enjoy mixing my own stuff, being able to play with the ratios and so on. And as the additives Moersch sells for his lith developer are almost all the chemicals I need to mix my own apparently, I'll try that route first. If I completely fail, I can still buy Easylith and I'll already have the additives and not lost much.
Still, I'd love to hear from more people who have actually used the simple formaldehyde free formulas, it's weird there seem to be so few. @koraks, @Bob Carnie, have you tried them?

 

[koraks]

Yes, I use formaldehyde free lith developers. Currently, when I do lith, it's a simple concoction along the lines of D-9 / ansco 70. Some hydroquinone, sulfite and potassium bromide. I add carbonate to taste and depending on the paper I use. I adjust the bromide to get the contrast I need, along with exposure. If I want something particularly colorful, I do 2-bath with a metol-only developer with a large amount of chloride and a high contrast lith step to bring in the blacks; like Moersch' 'polychrome' technique. Paper of choice is Fomatone MG. The most beautiful pinks I got with some old polywarmtone, but I only have a few sheets of that...

 

[grain elevator]

Ah it's an exciting new world! Wolfgang Moersch's examples of his polychrome technique look ott to me, but I might try that too eventually. Considering that I have a lot of Brovira, which apparently liths not super colorful, maybe rather sooner than later. I was planning to add metol to my order anyway to try BTTB at some point.

 

[grainyvision]

If you want a minimal lith developer as a starting point, you can use something like:

A:
2.5g sulfite
4g hydroquinone
1g Potassium bromide
Add to 100ml of water. Do not keep longer than 6 hours (maybe less!)

B:
100g potassium carbonate (can be substituted with 75g of sodium carbonate with appropriate working solution changes)
Add to 500ml of water, keeps for at least a year (can be scaled up or down, this is just a basic 20% solution)

For a working solution, start with 25-50ml of part A and 50ml of part B. All is still to taste of course. Expect a tray life of 1-2 hours. Metabisulfite would be better for a longer lasting part A, but in my experiments I've failed to actually create a long lived part A that doesn't involve a very high amount of non-ionic solvent (ie, glycol/TEA) and also contains an appropriately small amount of sulfite. I'm really curious how EasyLith was able to pull it off