Liquid paper developers that keep well

herb · Dec 2, 2008

I have a friend who wants a liquid concentrate paper developer that keeps well-he sometimes goes a month between printing sessions, and some of the Ilford offerings he has used turned brown pretty quick.

I thought Agfa Neutol WA would work, but I use Amidol, so I would like to hear what the troops have to say.

Thanks

herb · Dec 2, 2008

Paper developer question

I read the post above-he does intend to discard the diluted working solution at the end of each session, if that is not clear (it is late)

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 2, 2008

Neutol WA concentrate does keep for a long time, if you squeeze the air out of the bottle as you use it.

Ansco 130 working solution keeps for a long time, if you put it back in the bottle at the end of the session. I've had a batch going for weeks now.

Porter's Camera has a good deal on 2 qt. Air Evac bottles in their clearance section right now. These seem much better than the older Air Evac bottles that I have. The old ones were thicker, but they tended to spring back as air would seep in over time. These new ones stay collapsed, as the folds snap into place as the bottle is compressed.

thedarkroomstudios · Dec 2, 2008

Put the stock or concentrate in a bag-style or accordion (although I hate these) container -- eliminating oxygen and keeping in dark place will eliminate most 'browning' of the developers.

Remember that many times the brown color you see is only a result of a very small amount of the chemical actually oxidizing... it only takes a few drops of browned Dektol or Universal to make an entire gallon change color without any real detriment.

I know Beseler used to sell a spray (just CO2 maybe?) that you were supposed to use over a tray and in your bottles or working solution - heavier than oxygen so, it would reduce/eliminate the oxidation process.

Photo Engineer · Dec 2, 2008

Try Liquidol. Both the concentrate and the working solution last a long time!

Blushes. Sorry for the blatant plug.

PE

removed account4 · Dec 2, 2008

i'll second ansco 130.
it can last up to 30days in an open tray -
dilute, and still work well. i use it brown as cocacola
to process paper negatives ...
i buy it 1 time a year, 7 gallons at a time,
mix it, and stock solution lasts at least a year.

its good stuff

john

mikebarger · Dec 2, 2008

Ansco 130, another vote.

Mike

Martin Aislabie · Dec 2, 2008

I use Ilford Dev without problems

Don't find Ilford to be not significantly different from Agfa or anyone elses paper devs (note - almost no Kodak Devs in UK)

I decant my paper dev into smaller bottles (500ml coca cola bottles to be precise) and then squeeze the bottle to eliminate the air.

If you are in Europe - Tetenal make an aerosol to put an inert gas into the air pocket of part used bottles of chemicals.

Works for me.

Martin

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 2, 2008

I don't know if it's my air or what, but I find Ansco 130 goes bad in an open tray after about three days, which is why I started putting it back into the bottle and squeezing the air out. By "bad" I mean that development times become excessively long, and the developer turns very dark brown.

Photo Engineer · Dec 2, 2008

This is typical of Glycin developers David. I'm working on the problem. Glycin turns GREEN after a few days. This is a solvable problem IMHO.

However, I must add that this is related to the ability of Glycin to give long curves with a lot of shadow detail. These very factors are related to the developer itself. It is an interesting problem.

PE

keithwms · Dec 2, 2008

You know the wine-bottle vacuum plugs? You can get them at the grocery store or wine store. Those fit quite well into various chem bottles. Those will keep just about any concentrate for ages- assuming you didn't add any crummy water.

Ilford pq seems to hold up just fine for months in concentrated form.

jim appleyard · Dec 3, 2008

Many lpeople like the life span of Ethol LPD.

MVNelson · Dec 3, 2008

Ethol LPD does last a long time and seems to have very high capacity ...

Phillip P. Dimor · Dec 3, 2008

MVNelson said:
Ethol LPD does last a long time and seems to have very high capacity ...

I fully agree. Although i've never used the liquid offering, only the powder as the liquid is expensive (pricey and costly to ship as well).
I also reuse the working solution.

Stock lasts 6 months to 1 year (at least for me, seriously).
Working solution I can use for 2,3 sometimes 4 sessions.
Sometimes I'll add new stock to the old working solution, works well.

bdial · Dec 3, 2008

I use Liquidol in my Nova slot processor. I only need to change it when it starts growing things.

AshenLight · Dec 3, 2008

Liquidol has excellent keeping properties and is one of, if not the best paper developer I've ever used. It's basically the only paper developer I use any more.

Ash

Leon · Dec 3, 2008

I've got several bottles of Agfa Neutol WA concentrate in the original bottles not with air squeezed out - once of them is 9 years old - very brown like coke, works fine. I've also got some Ilford bromophen that I mixed up 4 years ago stored large clear plastic bottle again without any special removal of air, it has barely discoloured and works fine still (I know this isnt sold as liquid, but it makes the point well).

nworth · Dec 3, 2008

Liquidol is said to have good keeping properties in the bottle as well as in the tray, but I haven't had it sitting around long enough to say. It is certainly an excellent developer. Photographers' Formulary also sells BW65, which is a two part developer designed for long shelf life. I know the stock solutions for it will last about a year. It roughly resembles Ansco 130 in use. Ansco 130 itself has pretty good keeping properties. You can usually extend the shelf life at least somewhat by separating the alkalai from the other ingredients in developers you mix yourself.

r-brian · Dec 3, 2008

I've started using some of the Arista liquid developer from Freestyle. I can open a bottle of concentrate, mix a tray full at 1:9, and then not use the concentrate for months. Next time I mix it, it looks like new and works like new.

Mike Wilde · Dec 3, 2008

pre -boil the water

I find I get longer developer stand by time as stock, and also once diluted if I take my distilled/ reverse osmosised water and boil it in a stainelss steel pot with the lid on for a few minutes. Let cool sufficiently, and use it to mix up developer concertrate ( I dry mix from raw chemistry ). Store pre-boiled water in glass jugs, kept full when possible.

Developers so mixed do not have dissolved gasses present to get them oxidising when never in the presence of a print. Storing in full glass bottles helps.

Partially exhausted workign solutions - especially ansco 130 - I too agree it lastsssss - can be filtered though a coffee filter when they get a layer of crud in the bottom of the storage bottle, and then the resulting filtered solution does not leave said little cruds stuck to the emulsion.

Jojje · Dec 5, 2008

I use protective gas which effectively prevents oxidation. Gourmet (wine?) shops sell these gases for half empty wine bottles (solitary drinkers exist), Tetenal (Germany) makes product -"Protectan", if my memory serves me right, specially for photographic purposes or you can use plain butane gas as used for filling lighters etc. All are heavier than air.

keithwms · Dec 5, 2008

Jojje I think a lecture bottle of nitrogen will do the job very nicely. The key is to bubble it through the watery solution for a while.

Come to think of it, chucking some dry ice in the liquid might well displace the oxygen too. I am thinking that this might well be the technique for keeping carbonated drinks fizzy and fresh.

Doug Webb · Dec 5, 2008

I agree that Ilford Multigrade Developer, for example, begins to turn brown after a relatively short time when the bottle has been opened. However, I have successfully used this developer a year after opening the bottle when the developer was darkened with no noticeable difference in outcome in terms of the quality of print or developing time, so I'm not so sure that, at least with this developer, the color change is a problem. I'm passing this along because the original post seems to imply that Ilford products are a problem due to discoloration.
Doug Webb

2F/2F · Dec 5, 2008

The Ilford developer that he already has will work fine.

jgjbowen · Dec 5, 2008

David A. Goldfarb said:
I don't know if it's my air or what, but I find Ansco 130 goes bad in an open tray after about three days, which is why I started putting it back into the bottle and squeezing the air out. By "bad" I mean that development times become excessively long, and the developer turns very dark brown.

LOL

If the New York City air is turning your Ansco 130 dark brown, just think that it is doing to your lungs!!!

A FORMER NY City resident....

Liquid paper developers that keep well

herb

herb

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

thedarkroomstudios

Photo Engineer

removed account4

mikebarger

Martin Aislabie

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Photo Engineer

keithwms

jim appleyard

MVNelson

Phillip P. Dimor

bdial

AshenLight

Leon

nworth

r-brian

Mike Wilde

Jojje

keithwms

Doug Webb

2F/2F

jgjbowen

Liquid paper developers that keep well

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