liquid light hardening

Wayne · Feb 12, 2017

I've got some 10 year old LL that i want to try. I have a test card drying right now but I'm thinking I should probably start over with some hardener somewhere in the process. I'm afraid I'll just lose emulsion off the test card.

I have chrome alum (30 grams) but no hardening fixer and I lack some essential ingredients to make one. So I'd like to either do a hardening pre-wash, or add some chrome alum to the LL. I know how to do the former (10% solution, 5 minutes, wash, develop....) but not the latter. Can I just add x amount directly to the liquified LL? I'm having a hard time finding what x should be. I have the LL in plastic film cans. Prewash might be easier but I only have enough alum for 300 ml of prewash...thats enough for testing but not very much for making prints...

Photo Engineer · Feb 12, 2017

Prewet in 10% Chrome Alum and then wash for 5 - 10 minutes in water. Then process as normal. All at 68F or 20C. I doubt that this stuff is any good now, but you never know.

And it won't come back.

PE

Wayne · Feb 12, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Prewet in 10% Chrome Alum and then wash for 5 - 10 minutes in water. Then process as normal. All at 68F or 20C. I doubt that this stuff is any good now, but you never know.

And it won't come back.

PE

But I don't think I have enough alum to make a prewash for actual prints. 300 ml isn't very much unless the prints are very small. Thats why I wonder if I can add it directly

Photo Engineer · Feb 12, 2017

Yes, you can add it to the emulsion. Use a 10% solution at the rate of about 5 ml / 100 - 200 ml of emulsion containing about 10% gelatin.

PE

Wayne · Feb 12, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Yes, you can add it to the emulsion. Use a 10% solution at the rate of about 5 ml / 100 - 200 ml of emulsion containing about 10% gelatin.

PE

It turns out I have 50 grams of chrome alum, not 30. The 5 was hand scribbled at the Formulary and looked like a 3 but the scale doesn't lie. So I have enough to try either/or/both a hardening pre-wash and adding it directly.

Is there (I presume) already gelatin in the Liquid Light or do I have to add some? I think I mixed some Photo-Flo into it 10 years ago but otherwise its just whatever came in the bottle. I use a gelatin subbing

Photo Engineer said:
And it won't come back.

PE

Lol. Took me a while.

Photo Engineer · Feb 12, 2017

LL should be in a gelatin based vehicle. Hardening is quite fast in a prebath but I believe a bit slower added to the emulsion.

PE

Wayne · Feb 12, 2017

Welp...that film can of LL was no good. I'll try another but they should all be the same...

tezzasmall · Feb 13, 2017

I used an old bottle of LL / LE (Liquid Emulsion) when I first started and like yours it was totally fogged, although I haven't tried adding an anti- foggant chemical as a trial.

BUT, I bought a new bottle of the stuff and what great fun I had and still do!

As for hardening with Pot Alum, I add 3 grains of it to enough LL / LE to coat TWO 10 x 8 papers and I've had no problem with the emulsion getting damaged or floating off as yet.

Also, if you can find a CHEAP copy some where, I'd highly recommend the book: Silver Gelatin: User's Guide to Liquid Photographic Emulsion by Martin Reed and Sarah Jones. I got mine at a more reasonable price when it was first published and is full of useful info.

Enjoy!

Terry S

Wayne · Feb 13, 2017

I'm pretty sure mine is well beyond the help of anti-foggant. I spread some on a card and it was nearly black after 30-45 seconds in the developer. But mine has endured temperature extremes including multiple freeze-thaw cycles lo these many years. I tested 2 of the 4 canisters and I'm not going to even bother testing the others.

But it is great fun, I've usd it before and will use it again. Not pleased to see how much the price has risen since my last purchase though...

tezzasmall · Feb 13, 2017

Going black so quick in dev is not a good sign! Mine was just a light grey, that's why I'm thinking of trying anti-foggant.

Just in case you don't know, only melt / soften as much LL / LE as you are going to use at a time, as constant heating / melting and cooling of the whole bottle is not good for the stuff.

And not surprised at price rises, all things silver have done the same.

M Carter · Feb 13, 2017

Interesting thread - I've never used LL but I'm very fond of the Foma liquid product. It comes with a small bottle of hardener that you add when you warm the emulsion.

I read so many frustrated LL posts when I got interested in emulsion, but the Foma is really a lovely product.

Wayne · Feb 13, 2017

Well I'm not frustrated at all, this is an expected outcome after 10 years of neglect

tezza, when I first got the LL I mixed it with Photo-Flo and divided it into a half dozen film cans so I wouldn't have to reheat it all each time. But I only made a couple of plates and haven't touched it since. I sometimes let my house sit unheated when I leave in the winter, so the freeze-thaw was unavoidable.

Photo Engineer · Feb 13, 2017

The book by Reed and Jones is an excellent book but the emulsion formulas themselves are riddled with errors. I am referring to the first edition. I believe that there is a second edition out there, but not sure.

PE

liquid light hardening

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