Liquid developer that lasts as long as possible in shelf

caiocproenca · Sep 21, 2015

Hi,

This is my first post here. I would like to know if exists a liquid developer that lasts as long as possible in shelf, if it is sealed and away of humidity and the sunlight.
I`ve been using HC-110, and I know that it can last as long as 4 years if you keep it in the right conditions at the shelf, when it is sealed.
Does Ilford have any of those? And about Rodinal, anyone knows if it have any raw-chemistry recipe that you can make your own at home?

Thanks!
Caio.

NedL · Sep 21, 2015

Welcome to APUG.

I think you already have your answer. HC-110 should last a long time.

Renato Tonelli · Sep 21, 2015

From my experience, Rodinal has an extremely long shelf life (6+ years).

Gerald C Koch · Sep 21, 2015

The problem with making your own Rodinal is that the developing agent used paraminophenol does not keep very well. This limits you to buying small quantities at an inflated price. It is actually cheaper to buy one of the commercial versions. If you want either HC-110 or Rodinal to last a log time then transfer the developer to smaller glass bottles that are completely filled.

The other problem is that the formula for Rodinal has changed several times over the years. They were all proprietary secrets except for the Wolfen recipe obtained as war reparations after WWII. Even this formula contains an unknown anti-fogging agent.

Xmas · Sep 21, 2015

You can make home brew Rodinal...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Lots of apug people have used it but do start with safety goggles...

Trask · Sep 22, 2015

I recently bought two large bottles of Rodinal (unopened) that were produced in approximately 1980. I'm using one now, and it's just fine -- as if new. That's 35 years and ticking. Further on Rodinal: when I went to live in a village in Zaire in 1975 (Peace Corps), for my two years there I took a bulk loader of Ilford Pan F and a bottle of Rodinal. No refrigeration or AC -- heck, no electricity or running water -- and the Rodinal stood up to equatorial temperatures without problems.

bernard_L · Sep 22, 2015

Both HC-110 and Rodinal are extremely long lasting. I am currently using with good results what remains of an HC-110 bottle bought almots 10 years ago (divided in smaller bottles). Possibly Rodinal is even longer lasting. But, these are two different animals (I use both). Rodinal is more special-purpose, HC-110 more general purpose (certainly a Rodinal fanboy will chime in). If you are happy with HC-110 stay with that, and continue to improve your knowledge of that tool.

caiocproenca · Sep 22, 2015

Thanks a lot for all your answers!

I recently bought two large bottles of Rodinal (unopened) that were produced in approximately 1980. I'm using one now, and it's just fine -- as if new. That's 35 years and ticking. Further on Rodinal: when I went to live in a village in Zaire in 1975 (Peace Corps), for my two years there I took a bulk loader of Ilford Pan F and a bottle of Rodinal. No refrigeration or AC -- heck, no electricity or running water -- and the Rodinal stood up to equatorial temperatures without problems.

Amazing story! This clear my mind about Rodinal.

Does anyone knows if Ilford make a developer like HC-110?
Cheers
Caio

oscroft · Sep 22, 2015

caiocproenca said:
Does anyone knows if Ilford make a developer like HC-110?

I've no idea if they're anything like HC-110 in terms of results, and I've never used them, but Ilford ILFOTEC HC and LC29 (which sound like they're essentially the same thing) are described as being highly concentrated and with a long life. Any experts here?

Jim Noel · Sep 22, 2015

The solvent used in the concentrate is a very important link to long shelf life. HC 110 uses a glycol which prevents oxidation, a major factor in developer life.

HowieP · Sep 22, 2015

I found this thread which started in 2006 which mentions Ilford Ilfotec HC as well as Tetanal Neopress HC. There's alink to a Kodak-Ilford equivalency chart which equates HC-110 with Ilfotec LC29 and Ilfotec HC. (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

RobC · Sep 22, 2015

caiocproenca said:
Hi,

This is my first post here. I would like to know if exists a liquid developer that lasts as long as possible in shelf, if it is sealed and away of humidity and the sunlight.
I`ve been using HC-110, and I know that it can last as long as 4 years if you keep it in the right conditions at the shelf, when it is sealed.
Does Ilford have any of those? And about Rodinal, anyone knows if it have any raw-chemistry recipe that you can make your own at home?

Thanks!
Caio.

Ilford make Ilfotec HC which is their equivalent HC110 (very similar by all accounts). I never used it. The main difference is that the syrup is not as strong as the Kodak 1 litre stuff so requires less dilution. This suggests to me that it may not keep as long but I'm guessing about that. However, I think it would last well over a year so how long do you want to keep it for.

Ilford also make DDX which their preferred developer for modern T-Grain films (Delta, TMax etc). It keeps reasonably well, is less economical, is slightly speed increasing (approx 1/3 stop), is slightly more grainy than ID11/D76, renders sharp grain and keeps the film toe quite short.

Also look at Tetenal Ultrafin and Ultrafin Plus which keep well and work very well with T-Grain films.

Koday HC110 seems to be the king of keeping in part used bottles. Just depends on whether you want the HC110 look which tends to put an upswept curve into the films I have used it with unless you dilute it to around 1:50 or so. But if you do that you will lose a stop or so of film speed.

run2000 · Sep 22, 2015

Hardly an expert, since I'm still on my first bottle of LC29, but it's been going for around 3 years so far and still works as well as new. Plenty of examples on my Flickr stream.

David Allen · Sep 23, 2015

Ilford make Ilfotec HC which is their equivalent HC110 (very similar by all accounts). I never used it. The main difference is that the syrup is not as strong as the Kodak 1 litre stuff so requires less dilution.

In practical terms Ilford Ilfotec HC can be treated exactly as HC110. It is the same syrup style developer, works the same and keeps for years (so long as you do not follow Ilford's advice to mix it up as a 1 + 3 stock solution). Just as with HC110, the syrup requires very careful measuring which is best achieved by using a syringe which you the flush out 3 - 4 times with liquid from your developer mixture (i.e measure in syringe, add to water, stir well, insert syringe into developer and draw in some liquid, then flush out and repeat until syringe is clear of any developer syrup).

Ilford Ilfotec LC29 is exactly the same developer BUT already pre-diluted to make measuring easier. You need to use different dilutions and decant it into smaller bottles to achieve long-lasting storage.

So in answer to OP's original question, both HC110 and Ilfotec HC are excellent choices for long-lasting (at least 4 years but usually much more) developers.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Xuco Martin · Sep 23, 2015

If they refer to liquid. Rodinal is the champion in my opinion.
If style like thick syrup and Ilfotec HC , HC110. You can also prepare your own PC-tea if you want a fine grain

mdarnton · Sep 23, 2015

If you're not wanting to use a one-shot developer, I use D76, replenished. Replenishing lets you keep the bottle always filled to the top (replenisher in empty bottle, then used developer on top until the bottle overflows), and it gets you beyond the first couple of months when fresh D76 is notorious for being unstable in results. My current batch of D76 is running on two years old now, and working fine. Capacity, replenished, is about 120 rolls per gallon. I mix from powdered chemicals, which is extremely easy, and those both last nearly forever, and are cheap as dirt, relatively. I think my current bottle of Metol is over 25 years old.

MartinCrabtree · Sep 23, 2015

Jim Noel said:
The solvent used in the concentrate is a very important link to long shelf life. HC 110 uses a glycol which prevents oxidation, a major factor in developer life.

Would adding glycol enhance Rodinal? If so how much?

Gerald C Koch · Sep 23, 2015

MartinCrabtree said:
Would adding glycol enhance Rodinal? If so how much?

NO Rodinal is based on inorganic salts and their solubility would be reduced by adding a glycol. Then too they are based on water solution. Rodinal keeps well because the developing agent has been converted to a phenolate which resists oxidation even at a high pH.

HC-110 is the only commercial developer that contains no water. Lack of water makes it very difficult for oxidation to take place. But lack of water means that such common developer chemicals as sodium sulfite cannot be used in it. Kodak had to resort to an addition product of DEA and sulfur dioxide to replace it. Rodinal and HC-110 are very different in composition. What may be good for one formulation will not be good for the other.

Xmas · Sep 23, 2015

MartinCrabtree said:
Would adding glycol enhance Rodinal? If so how much?

You need more than 25 years in a 1/4 full bottle?

MartinCrabtree · Sep 26, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
NO Rodinal is based on inorganic salts and their solubility would be reduced by adding a glycol. Then too they are based on water solution. Rodinal keeps well because the developing agent has been converted to a phenolate which resists oxidation even at a high pH.

Thanks. Just curious.

Xmas said:
You need more than 25 years in a 1/4 full bottle?

Of course. More is always better.

Liquid developer that lasts as long as possible in shelf

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