Linhof Technika users of 23 vs. 45

As I've mistakenly spent $30 on two boxes of 6.5 x 9 film, I'm now stuck looking for the way to shoot it

I have two options, go after a 6x9, hence smaller, camera, or get an adapter for a 4x5.

I believe Linhof made an adapter for 4x5 Technika that would allow use of 6x9 holders. Problem is I have the Kardan Bi-System and am not sure if this will fit. If not, I'm not aware Linhof made similar to fit the Kardan line, did they? Kardan B is not exactly a field camera, so below is my other part of this.

Second solution is to go after Technika line where it begs to ask: a 4x5 vs. 23 differences. Not differences in movements etc. but rather overall handling (read some users saying that 23 is actually a bit tight to work the controls due to its size). As the 4x5 is obviously larger overall and heavier, it also gives the benefit of shooting both sizes with an adapter.

So to those who happened to have experience with both Technikas, how does size/weight/control compare between the two and if you had both, how much use of each did you get?

I will say that I'm leaning towards the 23 as I find it cute to look at. Will not have a hands-on chance to handle them, so this is going to be virtual comparison to make the call.

Note that I have Toyo Field AII, so am not all that crazy to acquire another field camera, but I also am not aware Toyo made an adapter to downsize sheet film.

LInhof film holders fit all models of their cameras, Technika, Kardan, Technikardan, Technos, etc.

Bob S said:

LInhof film holders fit all models of their cameras, Technika, Kardan, Technikardan, Technos, etc.

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Not about film holders, was asking about 4x5 to 6x9 adapter plate. There is one for Technika but no idea if it fits Kardan line or is there one for Kardan if it does not.

6.5 x 9 cm is a sheet film format, is larger than the roll film format called 6x9 cm (actually 2.25" x 3.25", 6x9 is a poor metric approximation). I doubt that a 2x3 Technika will accept a 6.5 x 9 film holder.

Dan Fromm said:

6.5 x 9 cm is a sheet film format, is larger than the roll film format called 6x9 cm (actually 2.25" x 3.25", 6x9 is a poor metric approximation). I doubt that a 2x3 Technika will accept a 6.5 x 9 film holder.

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That is not the question, it does. Numbers have been approximated but yes 6.5 x 9 holders, as made by Linhof among others are a standard that fits into Technika line, which is called 2x3 & 6 x 9 while actual sizes are 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 / 6.5 x 9.

Linhof makes an adapter plate for 4x5 Technika that reduces it down to 2x3 (as above) and now I just found out it will NOT fit my Kardan Bi, but there was one made for the Kardan Bi. As many accessories for that particular line it is hard to find though.

Bob S said:

LInhof film holders fit all models of their cameras, Technika, Kardan, Technikardan, Technos, etc.

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Not true unfortunately, only post WWII Technika III cameras and newer have standard international backs.

Witold, Kodak made adapter plates to use smaller sizes of film in their holders, they are in a Kodak Ltd catalogue, I'd have to check what sizes. These allow smaller sizes to be used in existing holders rather than adapting a camera back to take smaller film/plate holders. My Kodak Specialist 2 Half Plate camera came with a half plate film holder and adapted for Quarter plate.

MPP here in the UK made an adapter to allow Linhof 9x12 single sided metal plate/film holders to be used with a standard International spring back.

Kodak Ltd made and also sold (distributed) many items and also chemistry in the UK and Europe that were never available from Eastman Kodak in North America.

Ian

Ian Grant said:

Not true unfortunately, only post WWII Technika III cameras and newer have standard international backs.

Witold, Kodak made adapter plates to use smaller sizes of film in their holders, they are in a Kodak Ltd catalogue, I'd have to check what sizes. These allow smaller sizes to be used in existing holders rather than adapting a camera back to take smaller film/plate holders. My Kodak Specialist 2 Half Plate camera came with a half plate film holder and adapted for Quarter plate.

MPP here in the UK made an adapter to allow Linhof 9x12 single sided metal plate/film holders to be used with a standard International spring back.

Kodak Ltd made and also sold (distributed) many items and also chemistry in the UK and Europe that were never available from Eastman Kodak in North America.

Ian

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Well, I'm really asking about Linhof. There is no question what Linhof made was specifically for 6.5x9 cm, that's where their 2x3 / 6c9 (for short) gear was made for. So double sheet holders we all know from 4x5 and larger are easily available for this size as well. My main thing is about the Linhof Technika 23 vs. its 45 bigger brother. I've already figured what the deal is with LInhof's reducing back 4x5 down to 2x3, so I'm just looking for those who have used both Technikas and know how they differ in handling.

I have both 4x5” and 2x3” Technika Vs and sheet film holders and rollfilm holders for both, and I even have the 4x5” to 2x3” Technika reducing back. A Linhof 6.5x9cm holder has the same external dimensions as a 2.25x3.25” holder, but they take different film sizes, much like the relationship between 9x12cm filmholders and 4x5”.

A 2x3” Technika is tighter to work with than 4x5” and you don’t have quite as much control on the 2x3” (my camera is in the shop at the moment, so I can’t check, but if I remember correctly, it has no front swing, or maybe it’s no front shift), but there are workarounds for that. I like the 2x3” camera for travel, because it’s more compact, and it gives me view camera options for when I can use them. Even though the 2x3” is lighter than the 4x5”, it’s still a pretty heavy camera.

David A. Goldfarb said:

I have both 4x5” and 2x3” Technika Vs and sheet film holders and rollfilm holders for both, and I even have the 4x5” to 2x3” Technika reducing back. A Linhof 6.5x9cm holder has the same external dimensions as a 2.25x3.25” holder, but they take different film sizes, much like the relationship between 9x12cm filmholders and 4x5”.

A 2x3” Technika is tighter to work with than 4x5” and you don’t have quite as much control on the 2x3” (my camera is in the shop at the moment, so I can’t check, but if I remember correctly, it has no front swing, or maybe it’s no front shift), but there are workarounds for that. I like the 2x3” camera for travel, because it’s more compact, and it gives me view camera options for when I can use them. Even though the 2x3” is lighter than the 4x5”, it’s still a pretty heavy camera.

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Thanks David, pretty much what I was hoping for. BTW, it does appear 2x3 is missing swing on FS as it definitely shifts. Looks like I'll be hunting down a 23. They are actually at least as pricy as 45. The only way to come ahead on any of these regardless of film size is to spend more up front and get a more complete set.

Are you using side grip? I suppose with rangefinder working right handheld shots are possible in some situations?

I have the handgrip on both cameras and can use both handheld, so long as there’s enough light to maintain a reasonable shutter speed. To use the camera handheld, you’ll want a working, calibrated rangefinder with cams matched to your lenses and a zoom finder, unless you have one of the versions with a built-in top-mounted viewfinder, and then make sure you have the masks that match your lenses and formats. Mine is the Tech V 23b, which uses a shoe mount viewfinder.

Bear in mind that 6.5x9cm or 2x3” film is about the same price per sheet as 4x5”, so if you can shoot 4x5”, you’re better off, financially, selling the film and buying film you can use. In fact, you’re probably better off paying someone $1000 to take the film away from you, than trying to salvage it by buying a 40+year old camera. Unless you can find a camera in good working order with serial number matched cams, you’ll probably want to have a CLA, and then if you need lenses cammed, that’s another expense. If the bellows leaks, that’s another expense.

Then you need to be able to process the film. Options are open trays, the Nikor sheet film tank, tanks and hangers, and the Yankee tank. I’ve used them all and tend to use the Nikor tank, but for a few sheets, trays are simple, and for higher volume, tanks and hangers work best.

So, if you’re interest isn’t to save $30 so much as to have a compact medium format rangefinder technical camera, then the Tech 23 is an attractive camera. I usually use a 3-lens kit, and it fits into a small knapsack with a rollfilm back or a few Grafmatics, 67mm filters and a 3-position collapsable rubber hood, 6x loupe, small meter (or I use my iPhone meter app), notebook, and odds and ends. If I’m traveling I might pack a rollfilm back for handheld use and Grafmatics for shooting view-camera style on a tripod.

To compensate for lack of front swings you can either turn the camera on its side (be sure you have a substantial tripod head), rotate the back as needed, and use front tilt as the swing movement. Alternately, you can use rear swing and turn the camera, so that the lens plane and the film plane are in the same relative positions as if you had used front swing.

If cost is an issue, another alternative is just to look for some less expensive 2x3” press camera along the lines of a Graphic or B&J Watson to experiment with the format and see if it interests you. Remember the 6.5x9cm filmholders have the same external dimensions. I had a Baby Watson for a while, and it was a fun lightweight 2x3” press camera with a few basic movements and an adjustible rangefinder. I made focusing scales for it, so I could use other lenses by focusing with the rangefinder, reading the distance from the 105mm scale for which it was calibrated, and then adjust the lens position to the same distance on the scale for the lens I was actually using. It wasn’t a bad way to get into shooting 2x3” sheet film.

Thanks @David A. Goldfarb for details. I'm obviously joking about spending a $1,000 to save a $30. Really, I have no government experience.

Linhof has always appealed to me for many reasons. There was a time when I was looking at Japanese 2x3 alternatives, the Wista and Horseman or the Toyo TV23G (an expensive and quite rare monorail, or the VX even more expensive) and while Wista got really close to Linhof on the logo, when I look through some old Linhof publications I can't get past it. So if I do decide to play with this format, then I'm gonna have to find one of these. With some patience a kit with 3 lenses can still be had under $1,500, even less sometimes. While I have enough gear to cover formats up to 4x5, and I'm not going larger any time soon, this intermediate one is not with me. As for processing I'm going to make myself holders for the SP-445 tank, so that will make processing easy. Film is still available new from Ilford and Adox, so there is something to feed it with. Also, single exposure gives the control so needed at times, then there is a roll film back to shoot in a more convenient way.

This whole Linhof 2x3 thing seems like a winner. I would not be talking about it this soon had I not mistakenly bought the film though.

Good luck finding a suitable camera. I will say that both of my Technikas needed service and calibration to do all the things a Technika should be able to do, so plan for that expense, and if it turns out not to need it, consider it a bonus. If you have any other questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

David A. Goldfarb said:

Good luck finding a suitable camera. I will say that both of my Technikas needed service and calibration to do all the things a Technika should be able to do, so plan for that expense, and if it turns out not to need it, consider it a bonus. If you have any other questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

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Thanks again David, good to know. As this purchase is going to take some time to settle in, I might just go a bit nuts on setting a budget ceiling, finally selling off some of the gear load I won't ever use anyways. At this point I see a couple of Super Technikas V with 3 lenses in near new condition, one looking like purchased for display only. Service is going to cost so much around here, I'll probably try to kill it with a newer camera with high chances of not needing one.