Lines on negatives from Hasselblad 500CM

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

I just got a set of negatives back from the lab I use for processing and noticed a couple of issues. Firstly, several of the frames have thin, light lines running vertically along both edges that show up as dark lines in the scans. One of the negatives has an obvious darker half with a couple of dark vertical bands near the center. I looked at the previous roll of film I had developed at the same lab and I see the same vertical lines near the edges on some of that roll's negatives too. I'm reluctant to blame this on a processing problem given that I've been having issues finding an A12 back that doesn't seem to have a light leak or other problems. Just to be clear, both issues can be seen on the negatives themselves, they are not artifacts of the scanning process.

FWIW, I've seen some other threads describing similar lines but I didn't see any definitive conclusion as to the cause - some theorized it was from a light leak, others thought it was caused by debris in or some other issue with the film transport, still others thought it was a development problem.

I've attached a couple of images in case anyone has some thoughts as to what might be causing this. Based on my previous experience with a light leak in an A12 back, this doesn't appear to be one.

Vertical line down left/right edge:

Left half of sky is darker than right half:

Kino · Jan 4, 2020

On the first image, it could be light pressure fog or rubbing on a film plane rail or any number of things, but I have to point out that it is so far to the margins and so light that I don't understand your concern! Film must be transported across the aperture and there will be artifacts; as long as they do not protrude significantly into the image area I would not worry. The crop factor is insignificant...

As to the second image, I am having a hard time seeing to what you object. If the left side is ever so slightly darker than the right, it could well have to do with the position of the Sun and the natural polarizing properties of the atmosphere in relation to the camera.

guangong · Jan 4, 2020

As for second picture, the background is lighter on left than on right while in foreground tree on left is darker than tree on right. Seems to me that the sun and objects were recorded correctly. Actually a very pleasant picture with good distribution of tones. I don’t see reason for complaint.
However, you are missing half the fun by sending BW film to a lab.

Dan Daniel · Jan 4, 2020

The second image has a couple of subtle bars of unevenness in the center area. A dark band going up from the closer telephone pole and another darker band to the right of the second pole.

Something tells me if you cranked the contrast and levels up and down on these files you'll see lots of unevenness. Doing this can be a good way to highlight subtle issues.

Uneven development seems most likely culprit. Tank development? Scanner issues?

Ariston · Jan 4, 2020

I see two banding marks in the center of the sky (second photo) that to me looks like uneven development if developed on a reel. Do you have the negatives to look at? Did you use any filters?

Kino · Jan 4, 2020

Dan Daniel said:
The second image has a couple of subtle bars of unevenness in the center area. A dark band going up from the closer telephone pole and another darker band to the right of the second pole.

Something tells me if you cranked the contrast and levels up and down on these files you'll see lots of unevenness. Doing this can be a good way to highlight subtle issues.

Uneven development seems most likely culprit. Tank development? Scanner issues?

Yup. Good catch, Dan! (OP don't worry, I will delete your image from my computer). Slammed it in GIMP and see some streaking.

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

Dan Daniel said:
The second image has a couple of subtle bars of unevenness in the center area. A dark band going up from the closer telephone pole and another darker band to the right of the second pole.

Something tells me if you cranked the contrast and levels up and down on these files you'll see lots of unevenness. Doing this can be a good way to highlight subtle issues.

Uneven development seems most likely culprit. Tank development? Scanner issues?

It was developed at a lab that uses dip and dunk processors. I see it on the negatives do not a scanner issue.

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

Kino said:
Yup. (OP don't worry, I will delete your image from my computer). Slammed it in GIMP and see some streaking.

View attachment 237475

I'm not worried, but thanks

Looks like uneven development to me.

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

Ariston said:
I see two banding marks in the center of the sky (second photo) that to me looks like uneven development if developed on a reel. Do you have the negatives to look at? Did you use any filters?

The problem can be seen on the negatives. I didn't use any filters. I did, however, use a hood for the first time on this roll. It's the Hasselblad hood made specifically for the 80mm lens. But I'm not sure how this could be caused by that and I don't see it on any other negatives on the roll.

Kino · Jan 4, 2020

What film type?

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

guangong said:
As for second picture, the background is lighter on left than on right while in foreground tree on left is darker than tree on right. Seems to me that the sun and objects were recorded correctly. Actually a very pleasant picture with good distribution of tones. I don’t see reason for complaint.
However, you are missing half the fun by sending BW film to a lab.

Thanks, I like the picture too. Too bad it appears to be screwed up for wet printing.

I've considered doing my own film developing at home. I've been reluctant due to fear of messing it up, but I've been having some issues with this lab lately and not sure I would do worse on my own.

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

Kino said:
What film type?

It's Tri-X 400.

Kino · Jan 4, 2020

Probably will never know why that happened for sure...

Luck, or lack thereof, is a fickle thing.

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

Kino said:
On the first image, it could be light pressure fog or rubbing on a film plane rail or any number of things, but I have to point out that it is so far to the margins and so light that I don't understand your concern! Film must be transported across the aperture and there will be artifacts; as long as they do not protrude significantly into the image area I would not worry. The crop factor is insignificant...

It did look to me like something related to the film transport. If this is normal for a Hasselblad film back then I'm not worried. I can crop it out during wet printing. My only concern was that this is the second film back I've received for this new-to-me 500CM (the first had a light leak) and I want to make sure it's functioning correctly.

Grim Tuesday · Jan 4, 2020

This is such a strange issue. I say try a different lab with this camera to rule out the lab. Also, this doesn't look like a traditional light leak but who knows, maybe some photons are getting in. Try gaffers or electrical tape all around the back with the slide removed and shoot a roll. Fwiw I've never seen anything like this on any of my Hasselblad backs and I have several.

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

Grim Tuesday said:
I say try a different lab with this camera to rule out the lab.

I'm going to do that. The lab was great when I started using them, but they've been hit or miss lately. I had another issue like this several months ago using a different camera so my gut tells me this is a lab issue, but we'll see.

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

Well, the lab has owned up to a development error with respect to the second frame. Here's what they said:

"...we think you're right about uneven development caused by agitation. We don't see this often, and its usually noticeable on under or over exposed frames."

I don't think this frame was particularly under/overexposed so not sure what that last bit means. Anyway, I think it's time to move onto another lab or finally try my hand at home development.

BrianShaw · Jan 4, 2020

... and if you would, please, stop “blaming” Hasselblad.

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

BrianShaw said:
... and if you would, please, stop “blaming” Hasselblad.

I don't mean to, honestly. I love my "new" 500CM but am a bit paranoid about it because of the bad back I got the first time around. So until I get a good run of trouble-free negatives I'm always going to have my doubts . Hey, there's still those vertical lines at the edges that nobody has tried to convince me are 'normal'

Pieter12 · Jan 4, 2020

BrianShaw said:
... and if you would, please, stop “blaming” Hasselblad.

Yes, Victor's feelings are quite hurt.

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

Pieter12 said:
Yes, Victor's feelings are quite hurt.

I suspect he has bigger problems at the moment

BrianShaw · Jan 4, 2020

logan2z said:
I suspect he has bigger problems at the moment

... actually... he’s lucky in that he has not a care in this world!

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

BrianShaw said:
... actually... he’s lucky in that he has not a care in this world!

Point taken.

Ariston · Jan 4, 2020

logan2z said:
I'm going to do that. The lab was great when I started using them, but they've been hit or miss lately. I had another issue like this several months ago using a different camera so my gut tells me this is a lab issue, but we'll see.

I think it is a lab issue. Maybe they dinked but forgot to dunk. Let us know how it goes.

I don't think it was a hood issue. I only mentioned a filter in case it was a defective filter in some way, causing uneven exposure. But I have never seen that and it really looks like a development issue to me.

logan2z · Jan 4, 2020

Ariston said:
I think it is a lab issue. Maybe they dinked but forgot to dunk. Let us know how it goes.

I don't think it was a hood issue. I only mentioned a filter in case it was a defective filter in some way, causing uneven exposure. But I have never seen that and it really looks like a development issue to me.

Yup, the lab acknowledged their error. I mentioned it in an earlier post.

Lines on negatives from Hasselblad 500CM

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