Line on the negative

ginandtonic · Jun 29, 2015

Hi people,

I did my first B&W development this morning. The results arnt amazing, but I am just really excited to have produced an image at all and am looking forward to improving with practice.

However, along the whole negative strip appeared a white line. It is in the same position in more or less every frame. What could this be? I was thinking that I might have somehow broken the film by handling it wrong, but I have seen other issues mentioned such as over agitation. Of course I will try again and maybe the line will disappear, but would be good to have your thoughts so I can try to improve my technique.

In addition, lots of calcium deposits. I have seen some people mention they used distilled water. Just for the wash or to mix the chemicals too? I am in London which has very hard water.

A sample photo is attached. It is taken on an OM10, FP4+ film pushed two stops (I know pushing this film isnt ideal) ID11 Developer for 14 minutes at 22 degrees. Ilfostop stop bath (probably a bit stronger than proscribed) and Ilford Rapid Fixer. Developed in a patterson tank, inversion agitation.

Rick A · Jun 29, 2015

If that line runs continuously the entire length of the film, you have a serious issue inside the camera.

Kevin Harding · Jun 29, 2015

That really doesn't look like an under/over agitation issue. Looks like a scratch... but it would be a dense deposit? Odd. I would have thought a scratch to be black.

pentaxuser · Jun 29, 2015

Kevin Harding said:
I would have thought a scratch to be black.

Looks like a scratch to me as well. If it is on the same part of every frame and that question has been asked then it seems almost certain that it is a scratch. Can't explain why it is white on the reverse neg scan however.

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass · Jun 29, 2015

Welcome to APUG

It looks like a scratch. Check all the rollers in the camera and the complete film path. If you still have the film canister, check the velvet/felt for any hard points.

cliveh · Jun 29, 2015

Did you use a squeegee? If so get rid of it. Dunk your film in deionised water after washing for about 30 seconds to get rid of drying marks.

Peltigera · Jun 29, 2015

That has to be a dark line on the negative which is not a scratch.

My thought is a light seal gone gooey and leaving a black trace on the film.

Certainly not a developing issue.

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 29, 2015

To the OP
First rule of working out a problem with film is to never judge a negative by a scan or a print of it.
Always look at the negative as a negative.
Is there a black line on the negative?

Another thing: this is your first time developing a film. Has Ilford prescribed those 14min @22C in their literature?
You have thrown a few variables here.
For your first few rolls, always use the manufacturer recommendations. Then, when you get more confidence and consistent results, you can start experimenting.
Please, see: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf

RobC · Jun 29, 2015

did you bulk load your own film? Bulk loaders can put scratches on film.

how did you get the film out of the canister? Grit in the light trap?

Did you keep the film in the plastic container before and after exposing it and before processing it or did you just put it in a pocket.

I rekon its probably a squeegee problem as suggested but it could be one of the above.

jimjm · Jun 29, 2015

White lines on your print may be an indication of a scratch on the shiny (non-emulsion) side of the negative. If the scratch is on the emulsion side, these will show up as black lines. These may be caused by one of several things:

- Problem with the camera. Something on the pressure plate may have scratched the film. Shoot another roll and have it processed at a lab. If no scratches on the film, the problem's not the camera.
- Dirt or debris caught on the felt light trap of film roll. May have scratched the film while advancing or rewinding.
- There is a lot of particulate matter that has dried on the film, based on what you've shown above. If you've got a lot of sediment/minerals in your water, this may increase the chance of scratching the film while it is wet. Do you wipe or squeegee your film before hanging it to dry? This is a common cause of scratches like you have here.

I use distilled water for the final rinse, after the normal wash of 5-10 mins in tap water. I also do a final dunk in Photo-flo (mixed with distilled water) or similar wetting agent, before hanging to dry. No need to wipe the film as it will drip-dry.

Nathan King · Jun 29, 2015

I had a roll that looked exactly like that when printed on my condenser enlarger. After inspecting the negative it was clear that the camera was scratching the base side of the negative along the entire length of the roll, between frames and everything. I cleaned the pressure plate and the issue vanished.

ginandtonic · Jun 30, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
more or less in same position, or exactly?

pentaxuser said:
Looks like a scratch to me as well. If it is on the same part of every frame and that question has been asked then it seems almost certain that it is a scratch. Can't explain why it is white on the reverse neg scan however.

pentaxuser

Rick A said:
If that line runs continuously the entire length of the film, you have a serious issue inside the camera.

cliveh said:
Did you use a squeegee? If so get rid of it. Dunk your film in deionised water after washing for about 30 seconds to get rid of drying marks.

Peltigera said:
That has to be a dark line on the negative which is not a scratch.

My thought is a light seal gone gooey and leaving a black trace on the film.

Certainly not a developing issue.

Thanks so much for your quick feedback guys. The line is on the emulsion side of the negative and is continuous along the entire length, including between frames. It could be the camera, this is an old OM10 I inherited from my brother's photography A-level days and hasnt been used since. I was testing it out.

I also have a Canon A-1 which is almost new and has been serviced so will see what I get out of that. The light seals are a bit goey but I cant see where it would come in contact with the film. Probably more likely to be the squeegee I used. I did think at the time it seemed a bit of a brutal method of drying the film.

Thanks for the tip re: distilled water at the end. I will try that next time and leave it to drip dry

ginandtonic · Jun 30, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
To the OP
First rule of working out a problem with film is to never judge a negative by a scan or a print of it.
Always look at the negative as a negative.
Is there a black line on the negative?

Another thing: this is your first time developing a film. Has Ilford prescribed those 14min @22C in their literature?
You have thrown a few variables here.
For your first few rolls, always use the manufacturer recommendations. Then, when you get more confidence and consistent results, you can start experimenting.
Please, see: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf

Hi Ricardo,

Yes, line along the whole negative. Emulsion side.

No Ilford say that 200 is the max, but I had the film, light was fading fast, clouds came over and I thought why not. I was really only testing the process and practicing going though the stages of developing and wasnt that bothered about the quality of the pictures. Next time though I will follow things much more strictly!

George

ginandtonic · Jun 30, 2015

Thanks RobC no it was in the canister (totally not graduated to bulk loading yet)

Ill chuck the squeegee

Xmas · Jun 30, 2015

ginandtonic said:
Thanks RobC no it was in the canister (totally not graduated to bulk loading yet)

Ill chuck the squeegee

A white line on a positive is a black line on the negative which can not occur post stop step.
Likely cassette velvet, retrieve squeegee.

The film emulsion should run clear of the camera internals except for innermost pair of rails... Which can give the same signature if you rub them...

Clean the camera interior blower bulb, cotton buds regular but stay away from shutter curtain, note the curtains are tolerant but I not try to see their fail point, treat like butterfly's wings.

Don't clean mirror or screen.

If foam sticky or powdery replace...

RobC · Jun 30, 2015

I said it was most likely squeegee because the line is not parallel to imagae edge. But that could be because the scanned image is rotated and cropped a little but I don't know if thats the case.

ginandtonic · Jun 30, 2015

Thanks, Squeegee retrieved.

Ill clean as instructed. How do I get replacement foam? Also - why not clean the mirror?

G

Xmas · Jun 30, 2015

Pushing is an invention of the devil.

The rule book is dont underexposed and overdevelop.

If you need 400ISO use HP5+ in Microphen, your prints will look ok, otherwise they will look like organic fertiliser.

ginandtonic · Jun 30, 2015

Cheers,

Will do.

Xmas · Jun 30, 2015

ginandtonic said:
Thanks, Squeegee retrieved.

Ill clean as instructed. How do I get replacement foam? Also - why not clean the mirror?

G

The mirror is a front surface silver with a hard coating like a lens, but small silica particle will still scratch, the screen is a soft acrylic moulding, butterfly wings really, neither needs cleaning no matter how compelled you feel. They don't show on photos.

Bite on surgical pad or tongue instead, say 40 Hail Marys for question.

Ignore friendly trolls.

Google 'goodmann foam' for instructions, I use mouse mat, scissors and double sided tape, but the bought in foam is easier, sketch before removal, add short thin patches top and bottom of door grooves, in groove, butting to door hinge groove edge. Velvet will do instead.

Earlier cameras may have velvet ready.

RobC · Jun 30, 2015

I also see quite a lot of drying marks on the image, especially in lower right of image.

If you use squeege in a hard water area, after use and maybe washing and/or rinsing it under the tap, the minerals in the water on it will dry and form little calcium/limestone crystals on the squeegee blades. The next time you use it they will put scratches all the way down your film.

Use distilled or deionised water as last dunk in solution just to wash off most water borne minerals from the prolonged wash.

I use my fingers, index and middle finger to lightly squeege the loose water off the film.

Xmas · Jun 30, 2015

Some people get white spots stuck on negative in Londons artesian well system, but only on some film types, distilled water final soak may help or change film type, my faucet water is horrid, white particles from faucet turbulance, but I do/only need lots of surfant and a pukka film squeegee to dry film.

It is also ok for mono powders and bottled products.

Line on the negative

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