Lincoln Cathedral (Scheimpflug, exposure, Olympus OM 35mm film equipment)

Svenedin · Mar 15, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Close ups of snow on the facade could be interesting.

Yes but also a challenge to the stamina of the photographer. It was drizzling, cold and misty today. Completely overcast and dreary with poor light. I did take some photographs of the outside of the cathedral including some of the cathedral floodlit at night (with the camera on a tripod) but I got too cold quite quickly. Tomorrow it is forecast to be raining all day and if it is too wet I will not risk destroying my cameras. Then turning to snow overnight and all of the next day so that would mean taking pictures when it is actually snowing. At least it will be dry inside the cathedral!

Sirius Glass · Mar 15, 2018

Overcast and dreary makes great soft light. Not all good photographs are taken on bright sunny days. If that was the case no one would ever take a photograph in Rochester New York.

Svenedin · Mar 16, 2018

@Sirius Glass Yes, the light is nicely diffused in overcast conditions.

@jtk I have found a vantage point from a distance that should work. In fact, one of the 3 towers of the cathedral leans quite significantly anyway. I don’t edit digit*lly other than to remove dust marks derived from the actual sc*n.

Svenedin · Mar 16, 2018

Interesting day. Started with pouring rain which stopped but the cloud base was so low (about 100 feet) that the cathedral towers were invisible in cloud/mist. I took a few photos outside but soon found ISO 100 was too slow even with lenses wide open. A chap outside was trying to photograph (with a very long lens) peregrine falcons nesting on the central tower but he gave up because the mist was too bad. I swapped to ISO 400 film which was better and went inside the cathedral. There were 2 other people with cameras on tripods but they weren't using film. They wanted to chat to me though and we exchanged ideas which was pleasant. Some of my exposures were quite long, 10 seconds or so but I was in the cathedral early so there were no people to blunder into the pictures. Then it brightened up a little so we went up onto the castle walls to photograph the cathedral from a distance. A few shots caught some weak (and very brief) sunshine. Eventually it got too cold so we went to see one of the 4 surviving, original copies of Magna Carta (owned by Lincoln cathedral but housed at the castle).

mark · Mar 16, 2018

Clouds are like god's enormous softbox. Treat your subject like a portrait, or go for the close up details. No harsh shadows to block them.

blockend · Mar 16, 2018

A homespun workaround for photographing architecture on film is to use an old folding camera. These generally have a system for locking the front lens plate, which is easily bypassed by loosening a bolt or two. You then have a means of correcting converging verticals.

Obviously these cameras lack a ground glass screen but with practice the correct angle for the front plane can be estimated. An alternative is to place a piece of ground glass in the open camera before loading - a piece of tracing paper will do at a push - from which you can determine angle and focus precisely. Stopping down helps keep everything sharp, or you may enjoy the Victorian fall-off effect of an open aperture. Wonky folders can be picked up very cheaply, the old Zeiss Ikon Nettar is perfect for the job.

An alternative is to use a perspective control lens on your Olympus.

BMbikerider · Mar 16, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
I'm unfamiliar with the environment of Lincoln Cathedral. Could you use a long (say 85 to 135) lens from farther away, or will the surrounding structures occlude the cathedral?
A 24mm lens used closer will really exaggerate the convergence, and I've never been satisfied with using the enlarger to correct this.

Lincoln is at the top of a hill, appropriately the road to get there is called Steep Hill! You can get a distant image but only from about 1/2 a mile away. Any closer then you get involved with the streets, houses, parked cars, people and road signs. Lincoln is difficult. I have photographed it a few times and the only ones that were any good were small sections of the outside and the detail inside. A lens with a rising front would solve the problems of being too close - but at a price.

There is some quite artistic patterns in the road on the way up the hill where they have placed stone sets in the tarmac instead of marking the road with white lines. Use a 20mm lens with film or full frame on these it can be quite interesting.

Svenedin · Mar 16, 2018

BMbikerider said:
I class that as cheating. You learn to look at a scene and appreciate it before even getting a camera ready so you know what to avoid and what to include. If there is a bit of litter, go and pick it up, pop it in the bin rather than ignoring it then using adobe to get rid of it. That is the difference between a photographer and a snapper!

Haha. I did actually move an inconvenient traffic cone today that intruded on a photo. I put it back of course. Nothing to do with traffic -alerting pedestrians to an uneven surface but there was nobody there but me.

Svenedin · Mar 16, 2018

BMbikerider said:
Lincoln is at the top of a hill, appropriately the road to get there is called Steep Hill! You can get a distant image but only from about 1/2 a mile away. Any closer then you get involved with the streets, houses, parked cars, people and road signs. Lincoln is difficult. I have photographed it a few times and the only ones that were any good were small sections of the outside and the detail inside. A lens with a rising front would solve the problems of being too close - but at a price.

There is some quite artistic patterns in the road on the way up the hill where they have placed stone sets in the tarmac instead of marking the road with white lines. Use a 20mm lens with film or full frame on these it can be quite interesting.

Good view from the castle walls. Rooftops and most of the cathedral with 100mm lens. The OM 100mm is only a little bigger than a 50mm f1.4 but quite quick at f2.8. Lean of the North-West tower very noticeable. One of those towers where it obviously started to lean when it got to a certain height (and weight) so they tried to correct it as it went up by making one side longer than the other. Didn't work -still leaning but I think we'll forgive that after 800 years.

pbromaghin · Mar 16, 2018

BMbikerider said:
Lincoln is difficult.

I just checked it out on Google Maps and in this area they have a much deeper level of detail than most of the rest of the world. It's beautiful, but you aren't kidding - looks like a high difficulty, high reward subject.

Svenedin · Mar 16, 2018

blockend said:
A homespun workaround for photographing architecture on film is to use an old folding camera. These generally have a system for locking the front lens plate, which is easily bypassed by loosening a bolt or two. You then have a means of correcting converging verticals.

Obviously these cameras lack a ground glass screen but with practice the correct angle for the front plane can be estimated. An alternative is to place a piece of ground glass in the open camera before loading - a piece of tracing paper will do at a push - from which you can determine angle and focus precisely. Stopping down helps keep everything sharp, or you may enjoy the Victorian fall-off effect of an open aperture. Wonky folders can be picked up very cheaply, the old Zeiss Ikon Nettar is perfect for the job.

An alternative is to use a perspective control lens on your Olympus.

I do have quite a few old folders including a couple of Nettars. I don't think convergence is going to be too bad on the photographs I have taken so far. They may be bad in many other ways but convergence is not going to be the biggest issue. The West Front, which would have been a nightmare at close quarters is in scaffolding so much better taken from further away where the lower parts in scaffolding are hidden.

Tomorrow I had planned to go to either Boston or Louth. Both towns have extremely tall medieval church towers. Louth 293 feet and Boston 272 feet but the snow may be too bad for 50 mile drives.

Svenedin · Mar 16, 2018

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For what it's worth I did mark this as analogue only but the marker may not have worked. Sirius is quite correct as far as I'm concerned.

blockend · Mar 16, 2018

As a drone would certainly prove offensive, can I suggest a hot air balloon or some other dirigible as the platform of choice for the discerning film photographer in search of architectural perfection? Watch out for sudden gusts of wind in addition to the normal perils of pin-cushioning and barrel distortion, but otherwise ideal.

Svenedin · Mar 16, 2018

blockend said:
As a drone would certainly prove offensive, can I suggest a hot air balloon or some other dirigible as the platform of choice for the discerning film photographer in search of architectural perfection? Watch out for sudden gusts of wind in addition to the normal perils of pin-cushioning and barrel distortion, but otherwise ideal.

There were some quie nice aerial photographs taken from a Lancaster Bomber on the wall of a pub (The Magna Carta). Also included another Lancaster bomber. Pretty rubbish resolution though. Copy of copy of copy perhaps.

blockend · Mar 16, 2018

Svenedin said:
There were some quie nice aerial photographs taken from a Lancaster Bomber on the wall of a pub (The Magna Carta). Also included another Lancaster bomber. Pretty rubbish resolution though. Copy of copy of copy perhaps.

I'm familiar with Lincoln cathedral and the photographs you mention. It became a symbol for the numerous allied airman stationed in the vicinity, and it must have been viewed with considerable relief after a sortie into the heart of the Reich. Sadly those trips sometimes resulted in the destruction of equally exquisite churches. Such is the madness of war.

JBrunner · Mar 16, 2018

The thread is clearly an analog only thread. No digital evangelizing. Posters will keep to the topic, architectural photography using traditional analog means.

BMbikerider · Mar 17, 2018

Svenedin said:
Good view from the castle walls. Rooftops and most of the cathedral with 100mm lens. The OM 100mm is only a little bigger than a 50mm f1.4 but quite quick at f2.8. Lean of the North-West tower very noticeable. One of those towers where it obviously started to lean when it got to a certain height (and weight) so they tried to correct it as it went up by making one side longer than the other. Didn't work -still leaning but I think we'll forgive that after 800 years.

Whereas Durham Cathedral is still quite perpendicular

Svenedin · Mar 17, 2018

blockend said:
I'm familiar with Lincoln cathedral and the photographs you mention. It became a symbol for the numerous allied airman stationed in the vicinity, and it must have been viewed with considerable relief after a sortie into the heart of the Reich. Sadly those trips sometimes resulted in the destruction of equally exquisite churches. Such is the madness of war.

Yes indeed. I have visited many German cities including Hamburg.

BMbikerider · Mar 17, 2018

Despite being subject to the 1st 1000 bomber raid, the Cathedral in Cologne (Koln) and the centre of the city being largely reduced to rubble, the Cathedral was largely undamaged. There was significant damage around the main entrance which when I 1st saw it in 1977 was temporarily repaired using brick. It is now fully restored. There is still a small amount of shrapnel damage on the walls but no worse than you will see on York Minster.

Svenedin · Mar 17, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Close ups of snow on the facade could be interesting.

Yes I looked out at 4am and the facade looked like an iced cake. I am daft enough to venture out to photograph that, even at 4am, but the floodlights are turned off in the middle of the night. Had melted by morning but it is snowing again now. As usual the media seem to have had hysterics about a few flakes of snow.

Svenedin · Mar 17, 2018

BMbikerider said:
Despite being subject to the 1st 1000 bomber raid, the Cathedral in Cologne (Koln) and the centre of the city being largely reduced to rubble, the Cathedral was largely undamaged. There was significant damage around the main entrance which when I 1st saw it in 1977 was temporarily repaired using brick. It is now fully restored. There is still a small amount of shrapnel damage on the walls but no worse than you will see on York Minster.

@BMbikerider Yes, I've been to Cologne many times. In fact, I have been and seen the huge bells in one of the towers and have been on the roof and in parts of the cathedral that most visitors don't see. It is a a bit of a shock to find that Cologne cathedral is not quite what it seems -the roof is held up by 19th century steel girders.

I'm sure you've seen the contemporary pictures of Cologne cathedral standing almost untouched whilst all around is devastation. Whilst digging bomb shelters near the cathedral workers found the Roman street level and unearthed some spectacular mosaics. There are still in situ within what is now the brilliant Roman Museum.

BMbikerider · Mar 17, 2018

I have seen the signs for the Roman Museum but never found the time to visit. I may never get the chance now because when I go abroad to Germany it is usually south to Bavaria and into Switzerland and Austria and don't go near the city on the way down

Svenedin · Mar 17, 2018

Cologne usually suits my routes to Switzerland or Austria. I particularly like the Früh beerhall. Sometimes Koblenz instead if we want to push on further or Aachen if too tired.

macfred · Mar 17, 2018

Svenedin said:
@BMbikerider ... It is a a bit of a shock to find that Cologne cathedral is not quite what it seems -the roof is held up by 19th century steel girders ...

The roof truss of the cathedral was built about 30 years before the construction of the Eiffel Tower, and is one of the most important examples of early iron construction. When it was installed in 1860 over the vaults of the nave and transept, it was at first controversial - many thought that the roof truss of the cathedral had to be constructed of wood, as in the Middle Ages.

Edit:
Also worth a visit is the Ulm Minster. Here the original timber frame was replaced by an iron roof truss in 1890, a few years after its completion.

Svenedin · Mar 18, 2018

I'm back from my trip. Had a great time. Nice hotel (The White Hart) with a view from the room of Lincoln cathedral and so close that the hour bell ("Great Tom") could be very clearly heard. Lucky I love bells (I'm a bellringer). Rather tricky drive home with terrible weather. I thought at one stage we might have to turn back as there was so much snow on the road it was hard to tell where the road actually was. Fortunately, my car is Quattro and still has Winter tyres on. Despite the severe cold it did not in any way restrict what we had planned. Went to Louth yesterday and sheltered from the snow and cold in St. James's church which is very pretty. On the way back today stopped in Boston and then King's Lynn. Had lunch in Ely. Now I have to develop rather a lot of film. Time to mix up a new batch of Xtol!

Lincoln Cathedral (Scheimpflug, exposure, Olympus OM 35mm film equipment)

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