Like a Holga but better?

Flea77 · Jul 17, 2009

I was sitting here wondering the other day, Holga's are really interesting to me because they are small, light, inexpensive, and shoot MF. What does not interest me is the "look" of the images. I know some people love it, and that is just fine, to each their own. But I wonder if they make, or have made, a camera about the size of a Holga using MF film with higher quality construction?

I have seen the MF rangefinders and they are huge and expensive. TLRs are great fun but still way larger than a Holga. I have seen a few MF folders but I just can not get into folders (maybe because I have not used one in the field, just played with them on the counters).

In a perfect world here is what I would like:

1) No more than 125% the size of a Holga
2) No more than $200
3) Meter not required but I would not turn it down either
4) Reasonable quality lens
5) Image quality at least enough to decimate 35mm on enlargements

Does such a thing exist?

Allan

werra · Jul 17, 2009

I'd reconsider folder. Some Ikonta M for example. Decent optics, rangefinder (uncoupled, but still), and absolutely pocketable.

Mark Antony · Jul 17, 2009

My two penneth is to buy a Zeiss folding camera something say like a Super Ikonta 645 or 6x6 with a coated Tessar lens.
http://www.cameraquest.com/zikontb.htm

They fold up to a pretty small package, I'm using a 6x9 Bessa and for the neg size the camera is small. The quality is fantastic, quite up there with most MF cameras build wise and even though the lenses are more basic than SLR MF cameras they will give a good account of themselves stopped down to F11.
I paid £20 ($30) for my Bessa I (non coupled RF) I can't imagine a better price performance.
Bessa I
Mark

thisismyname09 · Jul 17, 2009

A folder seems like the only option for what you're looking for, unless you want to try mounting another lens on a holga, but thats a whole other story.

DannL · Jul 17, 2009

I picked up a new Holga at a sale several years ago. I could never bring myself to waste a perfectly good roll of film in it. I sold it fast.

Might I suggest any 120 or 620 Kodak camera? Though, they're not toy cameras. Many are inexpensive, and of average quality.

Here's the list . . . http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/aa13/aa13.pdf

I went through quite a few Kodak 620's, brownies, box cameras, and folders over the years. I finally settled on a Kodak Tourist w/Anaston lens.

Chrisk99 · Jul 17, 2009

I don't know how you can say brownies are not toy cameras, they where specifically aimed at children. In fact, if my memory serves me well, the name brownie came from a cartoon character used to market them directly to children. Having said that they take pretty good pictures for such a simple affair. If you go for the 620 models keep in mind you will either need to modify your 120 film spools to fit or find some old 620 spools and reload the film onto them.
They are charming to use, and for the sake of a few pounds, I can't think of a reason not to buy one just to try it out.

Akki14 · Jul 17, 2009

Ilford Sporti? Like a holga, but has a glass lens and two actual real apertures. Easier to load, lighttight, cheaper than holgas in UK ebay anyway.

Ektagraphic · Jul 17, 2009

Some of the Kodak Brownie cameras that take 120 film may work for you.

Paul Sorensen · Jul 17, 2009

I have several brownies and they are more along the line of the Holga in their lens quality. There are a few that have two element lenses that create a sharper image, but still I would not consider them to "blow away" 35mm. I do think you will be able to achieve your goals if you are willing to try a folder, I really wonder about whether you can get what you want out of a more solid body camera. I am attaching a shot from a Kodak Brownie Bullseye camera. It is 6X9 format with a two element lens. It takes 620 film, but I am able to make it work by trimming the spools on 120 film to fit the camera. It is only a little smaller than a Rolleiflex, BTW.

2F/2F · Jul 17, 2009

Medium format folders are not much larger than a Holga. The thing about a Holga that makes it seem smaller is that they weight nothing and nobody cares if they get knocked around a bit, so they are easier to handle.

DannL · Jul 17, 2009

Chrisk99 said:
I don't know how you can say brownies are not toy cameras . . .

"Brownies are not toy cameras."

See, it's easy. Now imagine me saying it in a soft seductive voice.

"Brownies . . . they're not toy cameras."

.

Nicholas Lindan · Jul 17, 2009

You want a folder. You need a folder. A folder is in your future. You will grow to love this folder.

It need not be expensive. I have a Zeiss Nettar II 517/16 with the 6.8 Novar lens - a pretty cheap camera - and it produces prints with TMX that rival Tech Pan in a Leica. The 1/25, 1/75, 1/200 basic shutter is very reliable and Zeiss bellows don't disintegrate like Agfa bellows.

A bit of practice will make you adept at judging distance. You can also get an auxiliary rangefinder -- I can guestimate well enough, though a rangefinder is a help at f6.8 where there is little dof. Add an old small selenium meter and away you go.

With Delta 3200 you can take indoor pics in pretty dim light with the 6.8 lens at 1/25th, though the lens does better at f11 or better. Someone next to a table lamp is about f11 at 1/25th. There is no mirror slap so handholding at low speeds is no problem.

If you don't like the crapshoot of buying on ebay, certo6 sells fully CLA'd, tested and guaranteed folders. Though a bit pricy, the cameras are a bargain when compared to what you get for the buck in a Holga or Diana.

darkosaric · Jul 17, 2009

I have agfa isolette. It is easy, simple, and lens (agnar 85mm/f4.5) is more than good (from f8 to f22 - excellent).
I noticed that usually folders on used market are 6x6, it is little harder to find 645 or 6x9. Also 6x6 are usually cheaper.

Valerie · Jul 17, 2009

Alan,

I have a Kodak folder you can use for a while. This will at least give you an idea of what a folder can do. I've run a few rolls of film and they look quite nice. Let me know if you will be this way.

(Oh yeah... its not going to be free! Cost: banana pudding! )

JPD · Jul 17, 2009

Zeiss Ikon "Box Tengor". A simple and cheap box camera, but with a two element achromat lens.

http://malikmatacamera.blogspot.com/2009/05/toy-and-box-cameras.html

http://www.flickr.com/groups/box-tengor_gallery/pool/

Flea77 · Jul 17, 2009

OK, fine, I will try a folder. I just bought a Zeiss Ikon 520/2 off Ebay for $31.00, I suppose that isn't too much money to try one out, and is probably cheaper than delivering banana pudding to Valerie! BTW Valerie, want more pudding? Have another get together, we will bring some!

Allan

thebanana · Jul 17, 2009

Banana pudding??? I'm speechless.

Valerie · Jul 17, 2009

Alan's wife makes a homemade banana pudding to die for!!!!

thebanana said:
Banana pudding??? I'm speechless.

nsurit · Jul 17, 2009

Valerie, what is there not to like about the fuzzy images of a toy camera? Don't like Ms. Holga? Try a Diana +. Brownie Hawkeye is pretty darn sharp and only 10 or 15 bucks. Too sharp? Flip the lens. Now that is nice! Two on my images will be in the TPS "Plastic Fantastic" exhibit opening Saturday the 25th. I'll enter a couple with the flipped lens in the competition we recently discussed. OK, I got it. You want sharp. Two I use are the Olympus Chrome 6 and either the Voigtlander Bessa RF or Bessa II. Both of the later in 6X9 format and the former in 6X6. Bill Barber

elekm · Jul 17, 2009

For the Zeiss Ikon Box Tengor, the post-war model is sharper than the pre-war version. That's been my experience. Plus, it looks a lot cooler.

Another possibility is the Braun Paxina. There were several versions. One has a lens panel that extends outward. It uses a very simple lens and a three-speed shutter. The others have a collapsible lens -- I think it's a triplet -- set in a Pronto shutter with speeds from 1/25-1/200 plus B.

Mark Fisher · Jul 17, 2009

The Agfa Clack is not exactly Hassy quality or Holga. Personally I find it too good for use as a toy camera. A 6x9 negative is pretty sweet too. Folders will definitely give you better images and better control, but it sounded like folders just don't do it for you. If you can go a touch bigger, Rolleicords. Minolta and Yashika TLRs are about as good as anyone needs.

thebanana · Jul 18, 2009

What could be better than a Holga?

Chazzy · Jul 18, 2009

If you don't mind guessing the focus distance (in meters), an Ercona II is a nice, solid folder, and available with a Tessar lens for not too much money.

Valerie · Jul 18, 2009

I love my Holga! And have a flipped-lens Brownie (still waiting to make some prints from that). I love the fuzzy look (kinda matches my fuzzy thinking ).

nsurit said:
Valerie, what is there not to like about the fuzzy images of a toy camera? Don't like Ms. Holga? Try a Diana +. Brownie Hawkeye is pretty darn sharp and only 10 or 15 bucks. Too sharp? Flip the lens. Now that is nice! Two on my images will be in the TPS "Plastic Fantastic" exhibit opening Saturday the 25th. I'll enter a couple with the flipped lens in the competition we recently discussed. OK, I got it. You want sharp. Two I use are the Olympus Chrome 6 and either the Voigtlander Bessa RF or Bessa II. Both of the later in 6X9 format and the former in 6X6. Bill Barber

tom_micklin · Jul 18, 2009

Chazzy said:
If you don't mind guessing the focus distance (in meters), an Ercona II is a nice, solid folder, and available with a Tessar lens for not too much money.

Just got an Ercona II from Certo6 on eBay. It's wonderful, and not expensive at all. Added a $25 shoe mount rangefinder (the Russian one that reads in meters).
Haven't touched my Holga - or any other camera - since I got it.
Lightweight, excellent build quality, lens is Zeiss Tessar !
What more could you want?

Like a Holga but better?

Flea77

werra

Mark Antony

thisismyname09

DannL

Chrisk99

Akki14

Ektagraphic

Paul Sorensen

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2F/2F

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Nicholas Lindan

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darkosaric

Valerie

JPD

Flea77

thebanana

Valerie

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thebanana

Chazzy

Valerie

tom_micklin

Like a Holga but better?

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