Lighter-Fluid Cleaning on an Alphax Synchromatic?

Johnny V · Feb 12, 2006

Hi All,

On my 5x7 B&J - that I'm slowly restoring I have an Alphax Synchromatic self-cocking shutter that seems to be slow or stick at 1, and 1/2 seconds. Ive read with some shutters its possible to soak the shutter in lighter fluid and nothing more is needed. How about the Alphax Synchromatic shutter or am I asking for trouble?

Thanks,

John V.

athanasius80 · Feb 12, 2006

If you know what you're doing, lighter fluid can work. You've probably just got a dirty escapement. If you don't know what you're doing, things can get not so good.

JLMoore3 · Feb 13, 2006

I have found that the lighter fluid cleaning ritual is fraught with problems...

First off there's the flammability issue- "Hold still, honey, if you run around screaming I won't be able to douse your sweater with this bucket of water!"

The other problem is the residue that is left behind by the lighter fluid- you're looking at more problems down the road.

I've been using electronic contact cleaner- the kind that dries rapidly & doesn't leave any residue behind (LPS "CFC Free"). The only problem is finding this stuff locally, since it can't be air-shipped any longer. Radio Shack used to carry a different brand, which was really a clean product, but they're not worth wasting your time with any longer- they don't seem to have anything you need, when you need it.

The important things to remember about cleaning these shutters is to make sure you get the shutter & aperature leaves completely clean of any residue. I've even gone back with 90% isopropyl alcohol on a cotton swab to make sure I've got them clean. The other is to make sure that when you re-lubricate, that you only oil the parts that should be oiled... Mostly- any part that has a spindle. If you have a clock repair shop in your town you can take the shutter in & ask him which parts look like they need to be lubed- they're usually pretty helpful with info like this.

Good luck!

Dave Parker · Feb 13, 2006

JLMoore3 said:
I have found that the lighter fluid cleaning ritual is fraught with problems...

First off there's the flammability issue- "Hold still, honey, if you run around screaming I won't be able to douse your sweater with this bucket of water!"

Hell John,

Us old Graphic guys, we sit on the couch with a TV tray in our lap and a cigarette hanging out of our mouth!!!!!!

D:

Dave

Johnny V · Feb 13, 2006

JLMoore3 said:
The other is to make sure that when you re-lubricate, that you only oil the parts that should be oiled... Good luck!

Was searching a little and found a recommendation not to lubricate an Ilex shutter as they are designed to run dry. But I guess it's not the case with the Alphax shutter?

Also can you recommend an oil? Sewing machine oil?

Hmm...I have drum scanning fluid that does not leave residue - on film anyway - wondering if I could use this as a cleaning fuild?

The electronics cleaning spray sounds like a good idea!

Thanks for all the info guys!

John Koehrer · Feb 13, 2006

Johnny V
About the only thing that needs oil in the shutter is the gear train. Do not lube the blade pivots or aperture operating ring.
Some sliding surfaces(cams, latches) could use a wee bit of grease but a toothpick dipped in grease is a lot.
Sewing machine oil is too thick. Micro tools carries a very light oil & may have a contact cleaner for you too.

BrianShaw · Feb 13, 2006

jdef said:
(slightly edited) If you care about the shutter, I'd recommend you send it to an experienced camera repair shop. It doesn't take much of a blunder to ruin a shutter, and it doesn't cost much to have a professional do it right. On the other hand, if it's a throw-away shutter, and you're curious, you might learn something useful. Good luck.

Now those are words of wisdom!

I've done some semi-amateur shutter repair and have had good luck. I must admit, however, that one Synchro-Compur gave me absolute fits. All it took was on misplaced spring end to cause me 3 weeks of fiddling! Only after I bought a repair manual did the spring get correctly placed and hte lube get done properly.

glbeas · Feb 13, 2006

If the escapement is accesible you might try dipping a fine spotting brush in a little WD-40 and gently swabbing the spindles of the gear train, plus a wipe or two on a gear face. No more than that. It should loosen up and work fairly quickly. Be very careful not to drip the oil anywhere else.

Johnny V · Feb 14, 2006

Shutter holds Wollensak 241mm Raptar f4.5 any good?

jdef said:
if it's a throw-away shutter, and you're curious, you might learn something useful. Good luck.
Jay

I'm a lot more curious than cheap, but also I haven't used the lens so I don't know the performance of it. The lens came with the B&J when purchased.

The lens is a Wollensak 241mm Raptar f4.5. I did some Google research and gotten very little info on the lens' performance. Found one user who said it was soft, another said it was razor sharp...Not sure if it even covers 5x7.

Can anyone piont me in the way of more info and performance of this lens? I used Google but as mentioned found very little info.

Thanks guys!

John V.

Johnny V · Feb 14, 2006

Did some more searching and found this:

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/wollensakcatd/raptarb.html

It's a cool site.

I don't have series II but looks like the "Raptar II 241mm f4.5" covers 6 1/2" x 8 1/2".

Don't know about image performance though...anyone?

John V.

Jim Jones · Feb 14, 2006

glbeas said:
If the escapement is accesible you might try dipping a fine spotting brush in a little WD-40 and gently swabbing the spindles of the gear train, plus a wipe or two on a gear face. No more than that. It should loosen up and work fairly quickly. Be very careful not to drip the oil anywhere else.

WD-40 is valuable in many applications, but can really cause trouble in shutters. Pure acetone (available from beauty shop suppliers) is a strong cleaner, but can do damage in the wrong places.

glbeas · Feb 14, 2006

Jim Jones said:
WD-40 is valuable in many applications, but can really cause trouble in shutters. Pure acetone (available from beauty shop suppliers) is a strong cleaner, but can do damage in the wrong places.

Thats why I was recommending it very sparingly to the escapement only. It's a gear train and needs some lube. The shutter blades and diaphram should be protected from oil at all cost.

rjs003 · Feb 15, 2006

As I was reading through this posting I was wondering when someone was going to mention Flutot's for shutter work. It will be done right and at a very reasonable price and when all is said and done you will know the accurcey of the shutter speeds.

ricksplace · Feb 15, 2006

Here's my .02-

I use brake cleaner with Hexane as the main ingredient, available at Canadian Tire. Some of the brake cleaners on the market use dry cleaning fluid as the active ingredient, and I find it to not be as effective as hexane. Be careful with this stuff, it is extremely flammable.

Once the shutter is degreased, I lube with WD40. I spray wd40 in a cup, and dip a toothpick in the WD40, then touch the toothpick to the bearing in the gear train I want to lube. That's all the lube you need!! Keep the lube off the gear teeth.

I have done about four or five shutters like this with good success. However, these were not shutters on real expensive lenses. I sent my Rolleiflex away for a cla and gladly paid the cost. I did a Yashica D myself and it turned out OK.

I enjoy tinkering with old cameras, but I let the pros do the tough stuff.

Whiteymorange · Feb 15, 2006

Just a thought, and I may find myself corrected by those who know better but...

I read of WD40 being used as a lubricant in shutters. When I worked in a maint. department long ago, I was warned never to use WD40 in locks, because it was not oil, but grease and solvent. The problem was that the grease would become quite viscous in cold weather and bind up the lock. Is this not a problem with shutters? I know that you don't want the lubricant migrating too much in the shutter, but wouldn't watch oil (Nyoil) be a better bet? - in the same small quantities, of course.

I have used a teflon based oil that came down to me from who knows where, a very light, very controllable lubricant who's name escapes me. (It's miles away at the moment.) I have also used penetrating oil to loosen things, but I degrease after using that because of its tendency to spread.

BrianShaw · Feb 15, 2006

Whiteymorange said:
I know that you don't want the lubricant migrating too much in the shutter, but wouldn't watch oil (Nyoil) be a better bet? - in the same small quantities, of course.

Pardon my bias... but this is the ONLY type of oil that should be used.

I've read some folks suggesting that WD-40 is good oil once the solvent carrier settles out, but that doesn't ring true. No watch/clock repairman worth his salt will use WD-40 for lubing any kind of escapement mechanism. Why should shutters be any different? Real clock/watch oil and grease is easy to get: www.timesavers.com and several other places on the net.

k_jupiter · Feb 15, 2006

BrianShaw said:
Pardon my bias... but this is the ONLY type of oil that should be used.

I've read some folks suggesting that WD-40 is good oil once the solvent carrier settles out, but that doesn't ring true. No watch/clock repairman worth his salt will use WD-40 for lubing any kind of escapement mechanism. Why should shutters be any different? Real clock/watch oil and grease is easy to get: www.timesavers.com and several other places on the net.

Company I have always had great luck with is:

http://www.slarose.com/cgi-bin/slarose/

Just be prepared to take up another hobby.

tim in san jose

BrianShaw · Feb 15, 2006

Yup, Tim... LaRose is good also. Given how easy it is to get real watch/clock oil and cleaning solvents, I shudder at the thoughts of people actually following the advice that continually pops up about using WD-40, powdered graphite, wheel bearing grease, or carburator cleaner. Re: second hobbies... yes, watch out... clock collecting and repair is just as adictive as photography!

athanasius80 · Feb 16, 2006

Just be the son of a clock collector. Then you can repair cameras using Dad's Wiha screwdrivers. Unfortunately, I tend to bring hope other things too...
And yeah, get a hypodermic worth of watch oil, it will last quite a while.

Carol Flutot · Feb 17, 2006

I just want to emphasis....Please People.... Don't use WD-40!!
In your shutters or camerasfor not only does it cause the problems mentioned about but also in time it can cause rust.
Growing up in the Camera repair buisness I have seen countless of cameras where the customer has said "Oh.. I just used a little WD-40 a few years back and now it won't work", then my Father would show them problem rusted parts!

Lighter-Fluid Cleaning on an Alphax Synchromatic?

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