Light leak in paterson tank?

Mogsby · Feb 19, 2016

Hi,
I bought a Paterson tank off Ebay, as my old one broke. I have developed 4 films in it so far and all have increasing marks on them. Not all the films were shot with the same camera. At first I thought it was contamination, but I don't think it can be that. It is odd that all the films have marks on the bottom where they were at the bottom of the tank. I have looked at the tank and cannot see anything wrong.
Anyone seen this before and to such an extent.

Any help would be appreciated.

pdeeh · Feb 19, 2016

pictures please

Sirius Glass · Feb 19, 2016

The copies of the photographs died not appear.

Mogsby · Feb 19, 2016

pdeeh said:
pictures please

I'm trying. Know any photo sharing places that work ?

Mogsby · Feb 19, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
The copies of the photographs died not appear.

I give up , it wont let me post a photo nor will it let me add links to photo sites. I'll try another forum.
Cheers anyway

Ok found a way that seems to work.

pentaxuser · Feb 19, 2016

Mogsby said:
I give up , it wont let me post a photo nor will it let me add links to photo sites. I'll try another forum.
Cheers anyway

Ok found a way that seems to work.

Good. I take it that this means you have decided not to forsake us on APUG. When can we expect to see pictures of said tank so we can help you?

pentaxuser

Jim Noel · Feb 19, 2016

It is not unusual for these tanks to leak light. The early ones worked very well,but later they change the material used to make the gasket. The later ones were notorious light leakers.

Mogsby · Feb 19, 2016

Jim Noel said:
It is not unusual for these tanks to leak light. The early ones worked very well,but later they change the material used to make the gasket. The later ones were notorious light leakers.

Thanks for taking the time to reply Jim. The tank I have has the grey gasket with the screw top lid then push on grey cap for inverting the tank. I think by the looks of it I have a later model. Prob 1980 ish. The one I broke was a 1989 ish model and worked well, the one with the clip funnel and cap that covers the whole lid, if you get me. I'm experimenting with x processing slide film, I have one roll left so am going to do the same as before with the camera but this time use the tank in the dark to develop the film. That way I will know if its the tank, for sure.
At least you have said that some models of the Paterson tanks are dodgy. I did google all this like mad, but all I found was speak of all Peterson tanks being perfect.
I'll try what I said and post back with the results.
Cheers Jim.

MattKing · Feb 19, 2016

The tank you broke sounds like the current tanks, which in my experience work very well and do not leak light if used properly. They do not make use of gaskets.

The older style tanks are decades old, and while I'm sure there are many out there that continue to work well, I'm also sure there are many out there that need new gaskets or are worn or damaged and are therefore prone to leaking light or damaging film.

The current ones have a lot going for them. Consider how few films you need to ruin before it has cost you as much as a new tank.

pdeeh · Feb 20, 2016

pentaxuser said:
. When can we expect to see pictures of said tank so we can help you?

pentaxuser

I thought it might be useful to see pictures of the negatives (not inverted scans though) as "films have marks on the bottom" isn't very descriptive, and before jumping to a conclusion that the problem is caused by a light leak in the tank, it might be better to simply look at the "marks" first and then proceed with diagnosis.

A picture of a tank might not be very helpful (unless one can see daylight through it, in which case the matter is proven )

Anon Ymous · Feb 20, 2016

It doesn't look like a light leak, but looks like the bottom half of the film didn't get wet. It might have been stuck to other parts of the film. I assume that it took some effort to load it to the reel. The film looks unblached - unfixed for the most part. Frame 31 looks like it has been bleached - fixed (perhaps not properly developed), but frames 32, 33, ... are not. I've seen similar results with bw film where parts of the film were undeveloped and unfixed, keeping the original colour of unprocessed film.

pentaxuser · Feb 20, 2016

I cannot examine the individual frames unless I sign in or join and I am not particularly interested in doing this but in the only pictures I can see it just seem strange that a light leak is only affecting the bottom part of a few frames.

I'd look elsewhere for the problem first as Anon Ymous has indicated above.

Incidentally as you may have a need again to show us pictures on APUG I'd ask for help in discovering why you cannot show pics on APUG instead of having to use a link to another site

There has to be a way to attach pictures in posts surely?

pentaxuser

davedm · Feb 20, 2016

As Anon said,

This is the case with film not wetting properly. This happens mostly when you have overlapped film.

May be the reel that you got with new tank has imperfections in grooves leading to overlapping of film. Since you should have older reels from broken tank and see if this solves the problem. Also visually inspect new reel for any damage to film tracks.

If you are new to loading/developing, also see some videos on better ways to load film on Paterson reels. Arista Premium reels from freestyle are compatible with Paterson tanks and are said to be easier to load due to larger lips. Although I have no experience with Paterson reels. (Jobo, Arista Premium and Steel only)

Mogsby · Feb 21, 2016

pdeeh said:
I thought it might be useful to see pictures of the negatives (not inverted scans though) as "films have marks on the bottom" isn't very descriptive, and before jumping to a conclusion that the problem is caused by a light leak in the tank, it might be better to simply look at the "marks" first and then proceed with diagnosis.

A picture of a tank might not be very helpful (unless one can see daylight through it, in which case the matter is proven )

I took your advice and had a good look at the film, also I tested the tank by putting some photo paper in it. The paper came out clean!.
So I looked at the tank again. While fiddling with the reel and spindle I noticed that the reel can travel up the spindle while inverted and get stuck. As I process all my films at room temp and development is slow, up to 13 mins at very low temp for the slide film. I invert the tank a few times every minute till completion.
I should have mentioned the film in the pictures is slide x processed in C41.
Anyway, I ran another film through the tank, ( HP5+) this time I secured the reel in place on the spindle and followed my past footsteps. The film came out very well, but too grainy, but that's another story.
Mick

Mogsby · Feb 21, 2016

davedm said:
As Anon said,

This is the case with film not wetting properly. This happens mostly when you have overlapped film.

May be the reel that you got with new tank has imperfections in grooves leading to overlapping of film. Since you should have older reels from broken tank and see if this solves the problem. Also visually inspect new reel for any damage to film tracks.

If you are new to loading/developing, also see some videos on better ways to load film on Paterson reels. Arista Premium reels from freestyle are compatible with Paterson tanks and are said to be easier to load due to larger lips. Although I have no experience with Paterson reels. (Jobo, Arista Premium and Steel only)

I am new to home photography, well analogue at least. I am making a lot of school boy errors .
I do have difficulty loading the Paterson reels, the film easily flips out of the lips if I not careful. I'm getting better at winding the film back into the canister in the camera so that I have the leader left out. Much easier than winding the leader into the can and having to open the can in the dark and having all the film twist up in a mess.
Mick

Mogsby · Feb 21, 2016

pentaxuser said:
I cannot examine the individual frames unless I sign in or join and I am not particularly interested in doing this but in the only pictures I can see it just seem strange that a light leak is only affecting the bottom part of a few frames.

I'd look elsewhere for the problem first as Anon Ymous has indicated above.

Incidentally as you may have a need again to show us pictures on APUG I'd ask for help in discovering why you cannot show pics on APUG instead of having to use a link to another site

There has to be a way to attach pictures in posts surely?

pentaxuser

My first time on the site it let insert pics inline. Maybe I have to subscribe now in order to have that option.
Mick

Mogsby · Feb 21, 2016

MattKing said:
The tank you broke sounds like the current tanks, which in my experience work very well and do not leak light if used properly. They do not make use of gaskets.

The older style tanks are decades old, and while I'm sure there are many out there that continue to work well, I'm also sure there are many out there that need new gaskets or are worn or damaged and are therefore prone to leaking light or damaging film.

The current ones have a lot going for them. Consider how few films you need to ruin before it has cost you as much as a new tank.

Anon Ymous said:
It doesn't look like a light leak, but looks like the bottom half of the film didn't get wet. It might have been stuck to other parts of the film. I assume that it took some effort to load it to the reel. The film looks unblached - unfixed for the most part. Frame 31 looks like it has been bleached - fixed (perhaps not properly developed), but frames 32, 33, ... are not. I've seen similar results with bw film where parts of the film were undeveloped and unfixed, keeping the original colour of unprocessed film.

The tank I broke had the click in place funnel, the one I have now is old style with the screw on lid and has a grey gasket. It is easy to over tighten and struggle to undo. Also this one will not take two reels, the lid refuses to screw don't properly. maybe it was designed for one reel only.
I will get another tank when I have the funds. The tank leaks when inverted, probably due to the gasket not sealing properly.
I posted a reply to pentaxuser with what I assume was the problem with the tank.
Mick

Mogsby · Feb 21, 2016

pentaxuser said:
Good. I take it that this means you have decided not to forsake us on APUG. When can we expect to see pictures of said tank so we can help you?

pentaxuser

pdeeh said:
pictures please

https://goo.gl/photos/MhLdxuizDYngVhW66
This is the tank I bought.
look at the price tag, that must be 1980 ish, back in the day when I took home £34 pw and that was a lot of money for a young lad .

MattKing · Feb 21, 2016

Mogsby said:
https://goo.gl/photos/MhLdxuizDYngVhW66
This is the tank I bought.
look at the price tag, that must be 1980 ish, back in the day when I took home £34 pw and that was a lot of money for a young lad .

In no particular order .....

That is indeed a tank for one roll. It is the older (several decades older) style.

This is a more modern two 35mm roll option - most likely the same as the one you broke: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Paterson-Super-System-Universal-Reels/dp/B0000BZMIH

MattKing · Feb 21, 2016

Mogsby said:
My first time on the site it let insert pics inline. Maybe I have to subscribe now in order to have that option.
Mick

You probably were trying to insert a file that was larger than permitted by the software, or in a file format not accepted by the software. The software has been recently upgraded, and I note that it doesn't tell you what the limits are - the old software did. That may be fixed soon.

In the meantime, I would suggest files in jpeg format with a maximum size of 850 pixels in each direction.

MattKing · Feb 21, 2016

Mogsby said:
I am new to home photography, well analogue at least. I am making a lot of school boy errors .
I do have difficulty loading the Paterson reels, the film easily flips out of the lips if I not careful. I'm getting better at winding the film back into the canister in the camera so that I have the leader left out. Much easier than winding the leader into the can and having to open the can in the dark and having all the film twist up in a mess.
Mick

If you inadvertently wind the film into the cassette ("can" in your post) then one of these will help you retrieve the end: http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/ap-film-retrieval-tool-2548-p.asp

Google film retrieval tool for how-to videos and options to the example I linked to.

One further point - for these posts I chose links that were UK based because of my guess that you were UK based. It is a good idea to list your general location (e.g. north UK) in your profile, to increase the chance that any advice you receive will be appropriate to your needs.

Hope this helps. Have fun!

Mogsby · Feb 21, 2016

MattKing said:
In no particular order .....

That is indeed a tank for one roll. It is the older (several decades older) style.

This is a more modern two 35mm roll option - most likely the same as the one you broke: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Paterson-Super-System-Universal-Reels/dp/B0000BZMIH

Hi Matt,
Spot on!.
Could well be pre 1980!

Mogsby · Feb 21, 2016

MattKing said:
If you inadvertently wind the film into the cassette ("can" in your post) then one of these will help you retrieve the end: http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/ap-film-retrieval-tool-2548-p.asp

Google film retrieval tool for how-to videos and options to the example I linked to.

One further point - for these posts I chose links that were UK based because of my guess that you were UK based. It is a good idea to list your general location (e.g. north UK) in your profile, to increase the chance that any advice you receive will be appropriate to your needs.

Hope this helps. Have fun!

I got in boxed from some guy in Germany over my lack of terminology .
I watched a lot of YouTube videos the other day with hacks to get the leader out of the cassette. I didn't have double sides sticky tape so I looped one sided tape round the end of a piece of film and managed to the leader out. Not the best idea as I imagine there is a chance of getting the glue on the felt and it going along the film. I'll get the tool you showed.
I've not filled in my profile here yet. I should do that pronto.
Thanks for the tips.
Mick

Mogsby · Feb 21, 2016

MattKing said:
You probably were trying to insert a file that was larger than permitted by the software, or in a file format not accepted by the software. The software has been recently upgraded, and I note that it doesn't tell you what the limits are - the old software did. That may be fixed soon.

In the meantime, I would suggest files in jpeg format with a maximum size of 850 pixels in each direction.

Thanks, I'll try reducing the size of the files. Could well be what the problem is.
Cheers
Mick

Dennis S · Feb 21, 2016

Saw them in Google and #3 definitely looks like over lapping on one reel. When you load do not force the roll as you can see some of the marks from being loaded too rough. Use a graphite pencil on the grooves helps clear loading. Good luck on the next.

Light leak in paterson tank?

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