Light Brown stain on paper

sscottbrown · Jul 5, 2006

I have lately noticed a light brown/tan stain on the white border of some of my prints. I use Ilford Multigrade Fiber, Ilford Multigrade developer and Kodak fixer. I mix all my chemicals with tap water. Last time I saw this stain I noticed it immediately after I started Selenium toning. I have seen some other threads about staining problems associated with that so I assumed my problems were related. Today I decided to bypass the toning. As I was taking my prints out of the wash to press the water out I notice one of the three I had been processing had the stain. I am now at a loss as to the cause. I have been processing prints on and off for 40 years and have not really seen this type of staining before. Any ideas?

Bruce Osgood · Jul 5, 2006

I would think it is either poor fixing and/or poor washing. Selenium toner can be used as a test for proper washed prints. A hypo bath prior to final wash may prove its' worth.

unregistered · Jul 5, 2006

What are your exact steps? How is your stop made? Is it fresh? Or if you use water, what rate of flow do you use? How do you "handle" your prints? Do you use tongs or fingers?

Please give more info for a proper answer.

argus · Jul 6, 2006

sscottbrown said:
I have lately noticed a light brown/tan stain on the white border of some of my prints. I use Ilford Multigrade Fiber...

Hi Scott,

I had the same defect some weeks ago with (fresh) Ilford MG fiber (MG FB IV 1k, 24x30cm), developed in Ilford cooltone, touroughly fixed, 3 x 7 minute wash cycle in a tray, selenium toned and washed for 50 minutes in a printwasher.
- fresh developper, somewhat older stop bath and almost fresh fix.

The spots only appeared on the white border of the prints, in 2 out of 6 identical prints.

- I first thought that I contaminated the print with fixer on my hands while taking the paper out of the box before exposing but the stains are too irregular (but grouped) and too small.
- I'm not at home at the moment so I can not check if the stains are in the same position. If this is the case, there might be contamination on the easel. I will have a look at this tonight.
- I hope it's not a coating defect on the paper .

Can Simon tune in on this?

Thanks,

Geert

David Lingham · Jul 6, 2006

Does sound like insufficient washing. Prior to toning I wash in an Nova for 1 hour minimum and then use HCA before I tone.

DaveL

Bob F. · Jul 6, 2006

From my reading (and one personal experience which was down to accidentally watered-down fixer) the staining is caused by either: (a) insufficient fixing: the toner reacts with the silver halides remaining in the paper, or (b) an acid environment: insufficient washing leaves acidic fixer in the paper and elemental selenium is deposited.

Short wash times before toning suggests the use of hypo-clear might be safer. I always give a full wash before toning now. Other possibilities are contaminated trays and utensils. I always assume I have made an error somewhere when things go wrong. I have a 100% record in this area!

Cheers, Bob.

Claire Senft · Jul 6, 2006

Collect your old fixer for disposal, make enough fresh fixer for two fiixng baths. Fix the prints thru the first bath with close to the normal time, temp and agitation, collect all your prints in a water bath and then when you are ready put them thru the second bath with shuffling continously for the full fixing time. After that you can follow the normal instructions for washing and toning as specified by the manufacturer. My experience has been that over use of fixer or under fixing will give you the type of problems you are seeing.

Jim Jones · Jul 6, 2006

I've had stains due to processing paper with contaminated fingers. The stains sometimes appear as the print is drained before the stop bath. Some papers seem more apt to stain than others. Rinsing and drying hands before developing prevents the problem.

Bob Carnie · Jul 6, 2006

Scott

Do you use your trays alot?

I do , and my dev tray over the years is a dark brown, I have noticed sometimes what looks like brown stains and immediately checked my fix routine as others here have suggested.
Rewet the prints and try rubbing this mark out with your fingers, if it goes away it is probably caused by the emulsion touching the bottom of the dev tray and picking up a tone.
I know this sound silly but I have seen it with other printers work as well.
I am kind of proud of the discolouration of the trays,but since I saw the removable brown stain bug, I am cleaning the trays more often.
I never inter-mix the trays and always use a two fix fresh fix system so I was very perplexed as well when this stain showed up.

sscottbrown · Jul 6, 2006

Thanks for the ideas. To try an answer some of them. I decided to not do the selenium toning on this set so the stains were after washing and before any toning. It was fresh batch of fixer. I use tongs all the time. I use Kodak Professional Indicator stop bath and mix a fresh batch for each printing session. I do use trays but all are clean. No residue of any kinds. The think that makes this hard to understand is I processed three sheets of 11X14. All from the same batch, all using the same easel, all processed identically in the same trays of chemicals. Washing for at least 2 hours combined time in a vertical washer and in a tray. Both with fresh running. No toning. Two are fine and one has light brown stains. If I had tried to tone these and found this problem, I would be examining my fixer and fixing routine closely. But stain without toning?

Bob F. · Jul 7, 2006

Contamination of the washer (and trays/tongs/easel/etc)? Just to eliminate those possibilities, it may be worth giving everything a good clean even if you are sure they already are spotless - if only for peace of mind... Coming from an engineering background I know intermittent problems are usually the most difficult to track down, and the most frustrating! If you don't already, separate trays for toning is a good idea.

Other possibilities may be fogging/printing-out or heat damage - clutching at straws here...

Cheers, Bob.

unregistered · Jul 7, 2006

sscottbrown said:
Thanks for the ideas. To try an answer some of them. I decided to not do the selenium toning on this set so the stains were after washing and before any toning. It was fresh batch of fixer. I use tongs all the time. I use Kodak Professional Indicator stop bath and mix a fresh batch for each printing session. I do use trays but all are clean. No residue of any kinds. The think that makes this hard to understand is I processed three sheets of 11X14. All from the same batch, all using the same easel, all processed identically in the same trays of chemicals. Washing for at least 2 hours combined time in a vertical washer and in a tray. Both with fresh running. No toning. Two are fine and one has light brown stains. If I had tried to tone these and found this problem, I would be examining my fixer and fixing routine closely. But stain without toning?

Are the stains where you grab the paper with the tongs? Are you using the metal tongs or the bamboo with rubber tips? The last poster basically said it...wash everything good once, with hot water and a clean sponge and in order, even though it might look clean. There is some slight contamination somewhere and washing, then carefully goiong thru your process and watching your steps and what you do will help pin it down.

Light Brown stain on paper

Membership Council

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency