Liford multigrade developer safe to use?

seanE · Jan 28, 2016

''Genetic defects'' and ''Suspected of causing cancer'' Thats what was what caught my attention on the back of my lifer multigrade paper developer, I was expecting the warning label to be the same as ID-11, But Thay were a bit more off putting. Is this just covering there ass, Or is there some thing especially toxic about lifords developer,
My darkroom has an extraction fan, I always ware gloves, But since it concerns my future kids Id feel a bit bad using it If I ware not sure its safe. So I continued using caffenol-c for the time been,
How long have they been manufacturing it?, And has there ever been a bad story about it?, Are there any safer paper developers?,

Anon Ymous · Jan 28, 2016

That's probably because it contains Hydroquinone, something present in ID11 too. Actually, most of the developers contain Hydroquinone. Just use common sense and you'll be safe. You don't need to come in contact with the developer. If you do, wash your hands, it's not the end of the world.

pdeeh · Jan 28, 2016

Unfortunately coffee also contains hydroquinone.

so it looks like you are doomed

Ian Grant · Jan 28, 2016

Posts like this should be banned. There's already threads on this topic (chemical safety).

Hydroquinone has a bad name because it was being sold & used in products as a skin lightener. There's no cases of issues in photographic use, as long as you don't drink it and wash your hands it's going to do no harm. There's far more harmful and dangerous chemicals used in every day household products.

Ian

Roger Cole · Jan 28, 2016

Ian Grant said:
Posts like this should be banned. There's already threads on this topic (chemical safety).

Hydroquinone has a bad name because it was being sold & used in products as a skin lightener. There's no cases of issues in photographic use, as long as you don't drink it and wash your hands it's going to do no harm. There's far more harmful and dangerous chemicals used in every day household products.

Ian

+1000

Don't worry, be happy.

Wayne · Jan 28, 2016

I disagree. If threads like this are banned (which they aren't going to be anyway) it stifles discussion and we lose the chance to point out that hydroquinone is not a suspected human carcinogen at this time, and that evidence for its carcinogenicity in animals is quite limited. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18027166

Ian Grant · Jan 28, 2016

My point is we keep getting these posts and the people writing them aren't making the effort to see if there's already a thread here on the subjec, not reading the manufacturers detailed MSDS sheets which are always readily available for download.

There's plenty written about health and safety in the darkroom.

Ian

eddie · Jan 28, 2016

seanE said:
But since it concerns my future kids Id feel a bit bad using it If I ware not sure its safe.

It just means your future kids will be fully developed in 2 minutes. Don't forget to fix them.

Roger Cole · Jan 28, 2016

Wayne said:
I disagree. If threads like this are banned (which they aren't going to be anyway) it stifles discussion and we lose the chance to point out that hydroquinone is not a suspected human carcinogen at this time, and that evidence for its carcinogenicity in animals is quite limited. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18027166

Ian Grant said:
My point is we keep getting these posts and the people writing them aren't making the effort to see if there's already a thread here on the subjec, not reading the manufacturers detailed MSDS sheets which are always readily available for download.

There's plenty written about health and safety in the darkroom.

Ian

My "+1000" was with regard to the "relax, don't drink it and wash your hands and you'll be fine" message not the banning of threads. Still, maybe a sticky or something.

pentaxuser · Jan 28, 2016

eddie said:
It just means your future kids will be fully developed in 2 minutes. Don't forget to fix them.

I like it. This one had me laughing while reading it on my own in the room. The wife has contacted my VDU manufacturer convinced that there are harmful rays from it that lead to madness

pentaxuser

wildbill · Jan 28, 2016

Ian Grant said:
My point is we keep getting these posts and the people writing them aren't making the effort to see if there's already a thread here on the subjec, not reading the manufacturers detailed MSDS sheets which are always readily available for download.

There's plenty written about health and safety in the darkroom.

Ian

what he said. there's an empty window in the top right corner just waiting for redundant questions.

spijker · Jan 28, 2016

I agree with the posts above that using the Multigrade developer in a normal way shouldn't be a health hazard. On the other hand there are the ascorbic acid based ECO developers without metol and hydroquinone:
ECO PRO
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Moersch ECO 4812

I've been using the ECO Pro developer for a while now and find it an excellent developer. It's not out of direct health reasons but more to reduce the amount of toxic substances going down the drain.

winger · Jan 28, 2016

If you start looking at labels of everything, you'll notice they all seem to contain something known to the state of CA to somehow be involved in some way, however small, with the chance of death occurring at some time in the future after using it.

Don't drink liquids not intended to be consumed and don't bathe in things not intended to be bathed in. Use as directed with the personal protection devices recommended, and you'll be fine.

pdeeh · Jan 28, 2016

This was never going to end well was it?
I do wonder about the motives of the OP in initiating it ...

Gerald C Koch · Jan 28, 2016

Unfortunately in our current society such labels are necessary. Only a few days ago a 16 year old died from drinking racing fuel.

Gerald C Koch · Jan 28, 2016

wildbill said:
there's an empty window in the top right corner just waiting for redundant questions.

Thanks to a writer for the show Two And A Half Men we now have Jake talking about redumbnant questions.

Rick A · Jan 28, 2016

winger said:
If you start looking at labels of everything, you'll notice they all seem to contain something known to the state of CA to somehow be involved in some way, however small, with the chance of death occurring at some time in the future after using it.

Don't drink liquids not intended to be consumed and don't bathe in things not intended to be bathed in. Use as directed with the personal protection devices recommended, and you'll be fine.

Karen and I were at Letchworth SP in N.Y. last fall, the California registered car parked next to us had a health warning sticker in the window, could be hazardous or cause death or some such crap, the owner said it was real.

seanE · Jan 28, 2016

Ian Grant said:
Posts like this should be banned. There's already threads on this topic (chemical safety).

Hydroquinone has a bad name because it was being sold & used in products as a skin lightener. There's no cases of issues in photographic use, as long as you don't drink it and wash your hands it's going to do no harm. There's far more harmful and dangerous chemicals used in every day household products.

Ian

Lan. Maybe you should look into some anger management or something, Its not good for your health to get so angry over petty things, I'm sorry if you've herd this question 1000s of times, But you could just not reply,

However, Thank you for you're answer, It was direct to the point, And cleared up all the questions in my mind.

seanE · Jan 28, 2016

Thanks for all the constructive replies

Ian Grant · Jan 28, 2016

seanE said:
Lan. Maybe you should look into some anger management or something, Its not good for your health to get angry over petty things, I'm sorry if you've hared this question 1000s of times, But you could just not reply,

However, Thank you for you're answer, It was direct to the point, And cleared up all the questions in my mind.

No and I'll reply again. Read the posts already made on the subject. search the Forum, read the chemical datasheets, read the full MSDS.

You have to realise people here are beginning to get fed up with alarmist posts like "But since it concerns my future kids Id feel a bit bad using it". You also need to realise that children are far more in danger from household products, yes it's up to you to be aware and take due diligence.

The most dangerous chemical they'll come in contact with is water and a lot of it, but you die of dehydration if you don't get enough, die if you drink far too much, drown if you fall into it, break a limb if you slip when it's froze, get hypothermia or frostbite if you get caught out in the snow, get burnt if it forms steam, all if you don't take the right precautions. When you think like that it puts things in perspective.

Photography was once very dangerous and people died and still cpiuld but it's wet plate workers using cyanide and ether, early use of magnesium powder as flash powder, rather than normal film & print processing.

You need to read ALL the health and safety precautions needed for darkroom work, they are really just common sense rather than being alarmist.

Ian

Wallendo · Jan 28, 2016

One is more likely to die from taking a selfie than a processing accident.

Maybe all digital cameras and phones should have a warning label.

DREW WILEY · Jan 28, 2016

Disposable nitrile gloves are so damn cheap nowadays anyway .... Not only do they keep developer "whatever" off your skin, but they're
far more efficient when it comes to rinsing off fixer residue than skin, so minimize darkroom contamination in that respect. Fixer is real
voodoo when it gets onto doorknobs or whatever, then onto your undeveloped film or paper. I never underestimate risk. There are people
out there who are dumb enough to hurt themselves in the darkroom with a sponge.

MattKing · Jan 28, 2016

Maybe the Liford developer is dangerous.

The Ilford stuff should be fine if handled correctly.

To the OP: you will sometimes see different warnings on liquid versions of chemicals because they are quite concentrated, in order to save on shipping weight and space. In addition, they need to be able to last without deterioration in liquid form for a fairly long time.

Powdered chemicals tend to be mixed up into more dilute stock or working dilutions, and those dilutions are sometimes not expected to last as long as the concentrated liquids.

In many cases, it is the concentrations involved that cause or exacerbate problems as much as the ingredients involved.

And different jurisdictions will have different thresholds for adding warnings.

These are all generalizations, but I refer to them to help explain some of the reasons why you will see different warnings for different products.

Treat the chemicals with respect and care, and you should be fine.

Remember as well that if the chemicals didn't have a high level of safety when used according to the directions, their sale would most likely be restricted.

Ian Grant · Jan 28, 2016

The OP needs to remember that many here have been processing films & papers for decade and have never seen a problem. that doesn't mean that there's not the very rare person who's hypersensitive to something, but it's extremely unusual. Before the war (WWII) some people would get dermatitis from Metol but this was due to impurities in the manufacture from one or two manufacturer.

I've been developing & printing for 50+ years as have others, and some here for a decade or two longer so collectively we have a wealth of knowledge, but we also have a lot of photographer friends and would worry if there were health hazards with off the shelf chemistry.

Ian

DREW WILEY · Jan 28, 2016

I've seen plenty of people poisoned by art projects, or who have gotten cancer, even a few died from it. Don't take anything for granted. Read the MSDS sheets. Wear gloves and have adequate ventilation. Most common black and white "beginner" darkroom chemicals are quite mild; many color printing chemicals are not. And some alternative process ingredients are downright nasty. That being said, there are not only darkroom people in this world but lawyers and liability insurance companies. In other words, any supplier of such ingredients is stupid if
they don't supply the "fine print" label with the product.

Liford multigrade developer safe to use?

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