Licensing of orphan images and Flickr's data increase: hmmm...

kintatsu

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it IS true ...
court system will no longer see copyright-cases where there is no proof-registration
this is what a consulted-lawyer told me and what someone at the ASMP told me 8 years ago.

you are welcome to try but you won't get far.

The fact is, the law allows it, whether or not it can successfully be concluded is a different matter. It makes sense that if no provable economic loss occurred, the lawyer would find it almost impossible to win, and therefore not take your case.

Also, if it was for a client or employer, you can't claim copyright unless agreed in advance, in writing. Metadata, printing, display, or publication can be used to provide proof of your copyrights, but can also be used against you.

Ansel Adams successfully defended his copyright of Moonrise against the US government, who claimed it as a work for hire.

There are literally millions of mitigating factors!
 

Bill Burk

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it IS true ...
court system will no longer see copyright-cases where there is no proof-registration.

I guess that means self-represented and taking your case to ... Maybe Judge Judy.
 

removed account4

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in my case, i DID register the copyright ( takes time to register ) ... and i believed like most people that i owned it when i depressed the shutter.
( they were allegedly in a RUSH for the work and buttered me up suggesting i was almost "staff" promised me additional work ( bla bla bla ) )
i did a "cease and desist" and they stopped ... they made up stories afterwards that it was all "on spec" because they had an open ended contract with me ( something their counsel always told them to do with contractors )
... they had me "phase + bill" as i went along .. i got wise and don't work like that anymore ...
 

Noble

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So why not just register when there is a problem? (edit: I posted this before reading your other post)

I found this in regards to some time limits and certain statutory damages...


http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap4.html


I'm no lawyer so I don't quite understand it. But it does seem like within a matter of weeks or months certain things like ATTORNEY'S FEES in some cases will not be awarded. Lawyers usually don't work for free.
 

Noble

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That is an ugly story and a real eye opener. I don't post anything on the internet unless it is watermarked through a stock agency, but I am definitely going to look into this copyright registration thing. I do this as a hobby and sell very little on the side so I can't afford a lawyer. I'm going to look into registering the stuff that is at the stock agency. Man life is so complicated.
 

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Trask

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I've found this an interesting discussion. To my mind, the other side of the question is: what are the odds that you'll find out that someone stole your work? OK, if a company were to misappropriate a photograph and use it in a Super Bowl commercial, you might see it and know to complain. But if that same company took an image and used it in their annual report, what are the odds you'd ever see that? If one were so inclined as to misappropriate images, I bet he/she would get away with it 99% of the time simply on the basis that the odds of the actual photographer seeing the image would be miniscule.
 

Steve Smith

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This is the official response to any worries:


From: www.ipo.gov.uk/hargreaves-orphanmyth.pdf

I think this is the most important bit: A licence must be obtained to use a work as an “orphan”.


Steve.
 
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Steve Smith

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and it seems that the poor mans copyright i mentioned is urban legend

All that proves is that you sent an envelope to yourself. It could have been empty and un-seealed and you put something in it later.


Steve.
 

removed account4

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All that proves is that you sent an envelope to yourself. It could have been empty and un-seealed and you put something in it later.


Steve.


it can not be opened until before a judge ...
according to the us copyright office it is not valid
because ... well the contents of the envelope were not REGISTERED with them ...
 

removed account4

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hi trask

its strange that a similar discussion ( not really ) is going on here:
http://www.largeformatphotography.i...otecting-people-infringing-copyright-my-story

while it is pretty unlikely that people will take random photographs from random people and use them in an annual report
or billboard campaign or whatever, if someone's work is of a well known person, place, thing, or event, chances are more likely
that it might get noticed if not used. i assisted someone years ago who used to shuffle his stock images around to the credit card companies
they loved his crew/regatta images and used them as much as they could ... sometimes they kept using them and he had to slap them on the wrist.
it seemed like a game of cat n'mouse back then but that's how he got paid and he retained control over his work.
 

MattKing

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Three really important issues are being intermixed here.

1) the laws of copyright ownership and protection vary from country to country. And the practicalities of copyright vary from country to country;
2) in the USA, the remedies available to someone whose copyright may have been infringed are dependent on registration. And as any lawyer will tell you, it is all about remedies, because nothing much else matters; and
3) in the UK, a new wrinkle has been added to copyright law with the ostensible purpose of making it possible to use material for which the copyright owner cannot be identified or located.

Two observations:

a) some may recall a relatively recent fuss where Scarlett Johansson suddenly had a bunch of partially naked photos of herself appear on the internet. As it turned out, the photos had been taken by Ms. Johansson herself, using her phone, and someone hacked into her phone and stole them. Ms. Johansson had a lot of success using the courts to prevent the re-use and publication of those photos because, as the photographer, she held the copyright for them, and thus was able to expeditiously obtain a number of injunctions that prevented future breach of that copyright; and
b) in Canada, unlike most of the world, our traditional rule has been that if you contract with a photographer to have photographs taken, the copyright on those photographs belongs to you, not the photographer. That rule has been recently changed by new legislation to match most of the rest of the world - the photographer is the copyright holder now. This change isn't as important as it may seem though - it has always been the case that the rule may be amended by contract. In a commercial setting, invariably ownership of copyright is dealt with by contract.
 

Steve Smith

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it can not be opened until before a judge ...
according to the us copyright office it is not valid
because ... well the contents of the envelope were not REGISTERED with them ...

Exactly. You could have mailed yourself an empty envelope a year ago then put something in it a couple of days ago and sealed it.


Steve.
 

marciofs

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If you have the negatives how can someone else have the copyright without a document proving that the work is orphan or that the copyright was transferred to them?

If someone takes your low resolution image from your website to resell or to use in a marketing campaign, is it not god that you are the only one who can proved high resolution prints? Or even better, the only one who can provide a original traditional print.

What can they do with low resolution images other than print it small or a large but bad quality print?
 

Noble

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I found some interesting information on the U.S. Copyright Office website. I think everyone should have a look at it. You can do electronic registration of collections of work. I am not a lawyer, but what I'm thinking of doing is scanning in work as I create it and doing mass registrations in collections titled 2012, 2013, etc. We really need more awareness about this. I believe normal registration of collections without special handling is $35.

 

Noble

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If you have the negatives how can someone else have the copyright without a document proving that the work is orphan or that the copyright was transferred to them?

They are not "proving" they have the copyright. If a work is in the public domain you can use it without paying royalties. It is up to you to "prove" you have the copyright. None of us is lawyers, but from a reading of the U.S. copyright website you need to register your copyright before mounting a legal action. You may own the copyright but our novice interpretation of the U.S. copyright website leads us to believe without registration you cannot bring a successful legal action.
 
OP
OP

batwister

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Everyone, I'm having a bonfire party next week. Bring your own negs!
 
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