LF/ULF Lens Advice/Recommendations Requested

Hello All,

A quick question or two which will hopefully result in many answers.

I have been shooting 4x5 for work purposes now for many years. I use a Linhof Technika with a full complement on lenses from 58mm to 360mm.

I'm in the slow, arduous process of completing an 8x10 kit and while I have a fair amount of glass (Thank You, Jim Galli !) I'm currently wondering about three particular focal length equivalents. Granted I could look at a standard chart for a standard answer, what I'm looking for are specifics. I love the way the Schneider 58mm XL looks, especially when cropped to 6x12. What would be a/the equivalent lens for 8x10, not only in terms of focal length but also the "feel", i.e. contrast, color, etc?

Is there a 8x10 lens that comes close in look & feel to the Schneider Xenotar, both the 135/3.5 and the 150/2.8 for 8x10? I like to shoot with these fairly wide open on 4x5 and would be very happy if something existed in the 8x10 realm.

And what about the 90mm/5.6 Schneider equivalent for 8x10?

Also I have a F&S Empire State 11x14 that I'm looking for glass for. This will take a while I think. I've had the camera for about two years now, I have one holder and one lens (a Kowa 260/f9) that'll cover. Plus I have some BIG barrel lenses (18" Verito, 14" P&S Bi-Quality, & a GIANT Dallmeyer 4B/4.5- not sure of the f.l. yet) that I'd love to use on it but I'm afraid the standards won't hold these.

So, (Jim G?) what glass WILL work on the F&S? And what 11x14 should I look for to use these big barrel lenses on? I'd like to use the F&S in the field
and I guess get a "studio" camera for the barrels.

I don't know if it'll help or not, but to get a feel for how my stuff currently looks you could look at my site: www.scharetgpictures.com

Thanks in advance for your input all.

Regards

Robb

Robb,

Being a big glass user on 11x14 myself, I can tell you that your camera choices are pretty slim. You have, as I see it, two choices. Either you find an 11x14 Burke and James or you use a studio camera.

I use the B&J, as do a few others I know on this forum. Its a fine camera with great movements and nice big lensboards, but is not the most stable and the 43" bellows can run a bit short at times (doesn't that sound crazy?). When I replace my B&J I will probably look for an 11x14 Deardorff Studio Camera with stand. Not exactly portable, but then again I don't move my B&J very much.

jason

ps: There were two models of Dallmeyer 4B: either 13.5" f3 or 17" f3.8.

Attached is an image of my 11x14 B&J with a 22" f4 Dallmeyer, roughly the same size as your 4B.

This lens is a big strain on the camera, but "small" lenses, like your 18" Verito and P&S seem to be fine.

Hi Jason

Thanks for the thoughts and response. It would seem that I have the same lens as the one shown on your B&J, the Dallmeyer I have is 25" with hood, and it's f4. Single element, ahead of the iris. Curious, what's your shutter mechanism? Black card, most likely I guess. As I mentioned I'd like to find a suitable 11x14 for the "big glass", a studio camera may be the way to go. I want to use those lenses for portraits anyhow. But . . . I'd like to be able to use my F&S in the field, as such I'm interested in lens options and advice. Goerz, B&L, Schneider etc? In wide to "normal" lengths, whatever that means on 11x14. If it matters I'm also looking at banquet cameras at some point in the future. Somewhere between 7x17 and 10x20 so it'd be great if I could get glass that would serve both masters.

Thanks

Robb

just an FYI robb the film diagonals for 11x14 and 7x17 are fairly close. so lenses you have for 11x14 and adequately cover the 11x14 will more than likely cover the 7x17 format, or at least come close. just thought Id pass that on.

Great photos, Robb! I think some lenses that might work for you would be the 19" and /or 24" RD Artar,the 450 Nikor M lens, the 355mm G Claron, and the 14" Kodak Commercial Ektar. All should cover 11x14 and are wonderful performers on an 8x10. A very useful 8x10 lens is the 240 G Claron and 250 WF Ektar. Both the Ektars I've mentioned do very well at the larger apertures btw. For a wide 8x10 lens, a 165 or 210 Super Angulon are sharp, but they are huge things---probably no sweat for a studio camera, but I fear too much for cameras like old wood fields. I think the most bang for the buck might be the 19" RD Artar, 14" Commercial Ektar and 240 G Claron depending on the fickle market of course.

Additionally, consider that the 240 G Claron would be a nice addition to your 4x5 kit and the 450 Nikor M will have you covered if you succumb to 12x20-itis!

I hope this helps.

Robb Scharetg said:

Hi Jason

Thanks for the thoughts and response. It would seem that I have the same lens as the one shown on your B&J, the Dallmeyer I have is 25" with hood, and it's f4. Single element, ahead of the iris. Curious, what's your shutter mechanism? Black card, most likely I guess. As I mentioned I'd like to find a suitable 11x14 for the "big glass", a studio camera may be the way to go. I want to use those lenses for portraits anyhow. But . . . I'd like to be able to use my F&S in the field, as such I'm interested in lens options and advice. Goerz, B&L, Schneider etc? In wide to "normal" lengths, whatever that means on 11x14. If it matters I'm also looking at banquet cameras at some point in the future. Somewhere between 7x17 and 10x20 so it'd be great if I could get glass that would serve both masters.

Thanks, Robb

Click to expand...

You might try Ray Morgenweck at Star Camera Company, he makes LF&ULF to order, he just made a tripod for me which was very well done. Pat

For wide angles on ULF look to the f18 protars. My 210 protar V covers 12x20. Computars 240/270/300 are good too but not good wide open. Fuji W are great lenses and knife sharp wide open. I have a Fuji 360 W that I love for 7x17. Dallmeyers are great too. The 4B will be great for portrait distances. I have a 4B f3 that I call my ULF Noctilux. I just received this week a Dallmeyer 6D that is sharp and seems to cover 12x20 pretty well at infinity. Also a Nikkor f10 260 will cover 11x14 wide open sharp corner to corner but only stops down to f32. Good luck! Emile/www.deleon-ulf.com.

Hi Robb

Really nice pictures at your site.

You're walking a famiiar path in an interesting way. The lenses you want are pretty easy to find, but they are quite well suited to what you're doing.

For a comparison to the 58 XL, I've used a 120 SW Nikkor for some time. I saw a lot of color come from this lens, and the 150, and it is great. Shooting one out west, on the prairie at sundown is very cool, the sun ripping along the ground, the lens loves that stuff.

For the 90, well, a 190 WF Ektar is a handsome choice. If you want more coverage, you could either go to a 210 SA or down to a 150 Nikkor SW.

I think, in 8x10, you kill two birds with the 150 Nikkor SW.

To fill the 135 / 150 gap, The classic Kodak 250 WF Ektar and 14 Commercial Ektar will please you. They have more character than the astringent and cold plasmat look. An introduction to what a WF Ektar looks like, shooting color film, can be had with a quick look at Joel Meyerowitz's stuff: Dead Link Removed


For the 11x14, look for Protars. Small, fine lenses.

And for an 11x14 field camera, none better than a Deardorff.

good luck !


don

Robb Scharetg said:

Hello All,

A quick question or two which will hopefully result in many answers.

I have been shooting 4x5 for work purposes now for many years. I use a Linhof Technika with a full complement on lenses from 58mm to 360mm.

I'm in the slow, arduous process of completing an 8x10 kit and while I have a fair amount of glass (Thank You, Jim Galli !) I'm currently wondering about three particular focal length equivalents. Granted I could look at a standard chart for a standard answer, what I'm looking for are specifics. I love the way the Schneider 58mm XL looks, especially when cropped to 6x12. What would be a/the equivalent lens for 8x10, not only in terms of focal length but also the "feel", i.e. contrast, color, etc?

Click to expand...

I haven't had the pleasure, but wouldn't the 110XL that everyone loves so much do the identical job with family characteristics. I use the poor man's version, a 121 Super Angulon in Copal 0

Robb Scharetg said:

Is there a 8x10 lens that comes close in look & feel to the Schneider Xenotar, both the 135/3.5 and the 150/2.8 for 8x10? I like to shoot with these fairly wide open on 4x5 and would be very happy if something existed in the 8x10 realm.

Click to expand...

Probably not. Dagor's would be the closest me thinks. 10 3/4". But nowhere near equivalent in "look" of very fast glass. Perhaps one of the 15" magic lantern triplet's would come close. 12" f4. Or a f3.5 Xenar up close. There were a few f3.5 Xenars in 10" length made for war planes. OTOH, Petzvals wouldn't have an identical look, but I'll bet if you liked the Xenotar wide open you might love the look a 12" Petzval gives near in on 8X10.

Robb Scharetg said:

And what about the 90mm/5.6 Schneider equivalent for 8x10?

Click to expand...

No modern equiv. 190 Ektar as already stated is a possibility. But the legendary 210 f9 Computar would likely be closer in look if not in angle.

Robb Scharetg said:

Also I have a F&S Empire State 11x14 that I'm looking for glass for. This will take a while I think. I've had the camera for about two years now, I have one holder and one lens (a Kowa 260/f9) that'll cover. Plus I have some BIG barrel lenses (18" Verito, 14" P&S Bi-Quality, & a GIANT Dallmeyer 4B/4.5- not sure of the f.l. yet) that I'd love to use on it but I'm afraid the standards won't hold these.

So, (Jim G?) what glass WILL work on the F&S? And what 11x14 should I look for to use these big barrel lenses on? I'd like to use the F&S in the field
and I guess get a "studio" camera for the barrels.

Click to expand...

Almost need 2 11X14's. One for field. I have a Seneca which replaced an Empire State. Both are fairly delicate for giant fast lenses. I reserve the field camera for that 13" Conley, 450 Fuji, Series IV and V Protar's, and some other oddball stuff none of which is very heavy. But for gigantic barrel lenses like 19" B&L f4 Sigmar's and 22" Petzval's you really need the equally giant Century #8 11X14 studio camera with a rolling stand. I have one but honestly the 9A 8X10 Century is the user camera.

Robb Scharetg said:

I don't know if it'll help or not, but to get a feel for how my stuff currently looks you could look at my site: www.scharetgpictures.com

Thanks in advance for your input all.

Regards

Robb

Click to expand...

jg

Hi, Robb

I took a look at your website and liked the portraits especially. I was curious if you use only available light+backdrop, or is the flash just very subtle? The Heroes series, for instance, doesn't have that fake flash color look. Also, what films did you use for that series for color, and what do you use for color portraits in general?

Lens/Lighting/Film Query

Hello

My apologies for what is clearly a LONG ovedue response. Not sure why I missed your questions but better late than never, right?

With regards to the "Portraits" images it's fairly mixed. Some are shot with either natural light and/or bounce via a scrim jim from the sun, if they're lit it's usually with a Elinchrome Octabank and/or a Profoto Beauty Dish.

Lately I've been moving away from lighting my work and doing more natural light. ALL the "Heroes" work is shot available natural "north light" using either a Hasselblad, a Linhof Tech IV or a Speed Graphic. In the case where I've used the latter two cameras I'm shooting with Speed lenses. Usually either a Xenotar 150/2.8, Cooke Speedic 162/2.5, Dallmeyer Super-Six 152/1.9 or a Kodak Aero Ektar 178/2.5.

Films? For most of my editorial and advertising work I use either Kodak 100 GX, Kodak NC 160 or Fuji Provia 100. For the "Heroes" it's ALL shot on either Kodak 160 VC or NC.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Robb

gbenaim said:

Hi, Robb

I took a look at your website and liked the portraits especially. I was curious if you use only available light+backdrop, or is the flash just very subtle? The Heroes series, for instance, doesn't have that fake flash color look. Also, what films did you use for that series for color, and what do you use for color portraits in general?

Click to expand...

Some lenses that haven't been mentioned yet (I think) are the 270mm G-Claron (slow,but kind of equiv. to a 135mm on a 4x5) and 12" Commercial Ektar (Kodak also made a 300mm aerial lens for the K-17---not the aero ektar, maybe it was called the aerostigmat? I should know, I've got one but its in storage---that might give the desired results shot wide open at, IIRC f/5) on your 8x10.

Since the thread started with mentioning a few Schneider lenses, I'll mention a few more: 165mm and 210mm f:6.8 Angulon. The nominal coverage of the 165mm only covers 18x24cm, but the "degradation" in the corners is quite smooth and unobtrusive. It's sharp enough for 8x10" and contact prints - I've tried mine on 18x24cm with quite a bit of movements.
The 210mm Angulon was made for 24x30cm, or about 9.5x12". The quality in the corners of a 12x16" (30x40cm) is going downhill, but should not be a problem on 11x14". Not to me, at least.

These two lenses also weigh a lot less than their Super-Angulon f:8 siblings!

I've got another Schneider "weirdo" - a Schneider Göttingen Aertotar 500mm f:5.5. It seems to be a triplet-derivate but with 8 elements in 3 groups. Weird, big, heavy, bright and sharp. No shutter, and I don't know of any shutter that might fit...